刘思敏 社会学博士，中国社会科学院旅游研究中心特约研究员。长期致力于对中国旅游产业运行的观察与研究，从社会视角密切关注中国旅游业的焦点、难点、热点问题，是假日改革黄金周存废之争的“挺黄派”代表人物。

Dr. LiuSiMin sociology,The Chinese academy of social sciences tourism research center special researcher.Long-term commitment to China's tourism industry operation of the observation and research,From the social perspective pay close attention to the focus of China's tourism industry/difficulties/Hot issues,Golden week holiday is the reform with the struggle of the waste"Pretty yellow pie"Representative figure.

　　戴斌 经济学博士，现任中国旅游研究院院长，博士生 导师、教授。主要研究当代旅游发展理论，大众旅游发展阶段的政策取向，基于预警的旅游经济宏观调控体系与游客满意度推介导向的微观监督体系等。

Dai bin dr economics,The current China's tourism research institute President,Doctoral tutor/professor.The main research of contemporary tourism development theory,Mass tourism development stage of the policy orientation,Based on the early warning of the tourism economic macro-control system and tourist satisfaction promotion oriented micro supervision system, etc.

　　今年的黄金周长假，中国多地景区出现客流“井喷”。从故宫远超历史纪录的单日客流量18.2万，到“华山爆棚事件”，再到鼓浪屿的“沦陷”，明知人多，为何还要扎堆出行？“假日渴求”的背后原因何在，假日景区爆棚将如何从制度层面加以解决？本报对话旅游领域的专家，以期寻找以上问题的答案。

This year's golden week holiday,China's more scenic spots appear passenger flow"blowout".Far from the Forbidden City during the period of the record worst passenger volume 182000,to"Huashan, befriending the event",To the gulangyu island"fall",Know many,Why still want to travel gathers together?"Holiday thirst for"What is the reason behind the,Holiday, befriending the scenic spot will be how to from the system level to solve?This dialogue experts in the field of tourism,In the hope of looking for the answer to the question above.

　　相关阅读：

readings:

　　长城日接待近8万游客 低头看不到城砖全是人脚

The Great Wall, receive nearly 80000 tourists lower the head to see ChengZhuan is full of people feet

　　华山上万游客2日晚被困 发生打斗事件

Tens of thousands of huashan tourists 2 days late trapped fight event

　　敦煌鸣沙山骆驼连续两天现过劳死 每天8000人骑

Dunhuang camel singing for two consecutive days now karoshi every 8000 people ride

　　鼓浪屿原住民纷纷"出逃" 为安静过国庆黄金周

Gulangyu island aboriginal in succession"escape" National Day golden week for quiet

　　旅游视点：黄金周带你去看“人山人海”

Tourism viewpoint:Golden week take you to see"People mountain people sea"

扎堆出游更多是无奈 Travel gathers together is more helpless

　　京华时报：从旅游者的心理来讲，为什么明明知道高峰还是要去？有观点认为这样的出游本身就是不理性的，您怎么看？

Jinghua times:Tourists from the psychological terms,Why clearly know peak or want to go?With a view of such travel itself is not rational,How do you see?

　　刘思敏：这个观点完全是错的。黄金周的集中出游实际上是一种理性选择。为什么这么说呢？判断一个行为是否理性两个标准：是否知情和是否自愿。黄金周已经10多年了，大众传媒时代，黄金周的拥堵地球人都知道；其次，黄金周出游，不是被迫的，不是迫于亲情、民俗等因素，完全是自愿的。平时不能带薪休假，春节要回老家，中长途旅游的愿望如果不是在长假期间，什么时候才能实现？而且对比一下，每年人数都在增加，去年去了故宫的，难道不是比今年再去要聪明吗？不要以为老百姓都是傻子只有专家聪明。他们也是经过盘算的，这是种无奈的选择。

LiuSiMin:This view is completely wrong.The concentration of the golden week travel in fact is a kind of rational choice.Why do you say that?Judge a behavior is rational two standard:Whether informed and whether voluntary.Golden week has 10 years,Mass media age,The golden week is congestion the earth person all know;secondly,Golden week travel,Not forced,Love is not under/Factors such as folk,Is entirely voluntary.Usually not paid vacation,The Spring Festival to back,ZhongChangTu tourism wish if it's not in the holiday,When it's time to achieve?And compare,Each year the number is on the increase,Last year went to the imperial palace,Isn't this year than to go to clever?Don't think that people are fool only an expert intelligent.They are also after the calculation,This is a kind of helpless choice.

　　戴斌：现在全国一年只有两长三短几个假期，人们的出游时间是有限的。加上带薪假期没有落实，人们都是选择黄金周出游，窗口期比较有限。从今年情况来看，上半年由于自然灾害等原因，旅游需求一定程度被抑制，十一集中释放；加上今年小汽车免费、部分景区降价、天气晴好拉动了出游的意愿，所以今年形成了很高的高峰。

Dai bin:Now the national a year only two was thirty short several holiday,People's travel time is limited.Plus paid holidays did not carry out,People are golden week travel choice,Window period is limited.From this situation,In the first half due to reasons such as natural disasters, etc,Travel demand a certain degree of suppressed,Eleven concentrated release;This year the car and free/Part scenic spot price/The weather is sunny to boosting the will of travel,So this year to form the high peak.

　　京华时报：有一种说法，说现在中国的观光旅游跟世界差距已经不大了，但是休闲度假的领域跟发达国家还要差个四五十年。您怎么看？是不是区别于这种出门就看人挤人、上车睡觉、下车照相，然后赶到下一个景点的旅游方式更值得提倡？

Jinghua times:There is a saying,Said now China's tourism with the world the gap has not,But leisure vacation areas with developed countries in four hundred and fifty is even poorer.How do you see?Is different from the home crowd people look/Get on sleep/Off photographic,Then get to the next attractions tourist way more worth recommending?

　　刘思敏：周边三百到五百公里以内的旅游，通过周末、小长假就可以满足了，但是中远程的旅游就需要长假。远程的旅游追求的是差异，所谓近处没有风景，风景在远方，就是说的观光旅游。在行业里，“从观光旅游向度假旅游转型”的说法实际上在我看来是一种误导。两者只是功能不同，没有层次之分。前者满足人们的好奇心，后者达到身心放松休息的目的。要让一个海边打鱼的农民去休闲游，去海边晒太阳，人不骂你有病吗？

LiuSiMin:Around three hundred to five hundred km within tourism,Through the weekend/Small long vacation can satisfy the,But in the long distance travel will need.Remote tourist are in pursuit of differences,The so-called no scenery near,Scenery in the distance,That is the sightseeing tourism.In the industry,"From sightseeing to vacation tour transformation"That actually, in my opinion, is a misleading.Both just function is different,No level of the points.The former satisfy people's curiosity,The latter to achieve the purpose of physical and mental relaxation.To make a sea of those days that the peasant fishermen to leisure,Go to the beach in the sun,People don't scold you sick?

　　戴斌：国际上还有休闲旅游、度假旅游、特种旅游，特别是还有无景点旅游。就是说到达一个城市，参加城市的休闲，参与到当地居民的生活方式里面去。国民的旅游意识还没有达到这样一种程度，觉得到一个地方不看景区景点就不叫旅游。我国的旅游跟国际还有很长的差距。从国际上来看，大众化旅游发展阶段在上世纪40年代末期50年代初期，而我们是从1999年慢慢进入的。国际上跟团旅游不是很多，散客旅游更为常见。到一个地方，晒晒太阳喝喝啤酒，参加一些当地的活动，我们现在还没有到达这样的阶段。

Dai bin:International and leisure tourism/Holiday travel/Special tourism,Especially there are no attractions tourism.That is to a city,Join the city leisure,Involved in the local residents' life style inside.National tourist consciousness haven't reached such a level,Think to a place from tourist attractions is not travel.China's tourism has a long gap with international.From the international point of view,Popular tourism development stage in the 1940 s to 50 s,And we slowly from 1999 to enter.International with a tourist group is not many,F.I.T travel more common.To a place,In the sun drink beer,To participate in some local activities,We haven't arrived at this stage.

建议恢复五一黄金周 Suggest recovery 51 golden week

　　京华时报：十一黄金周，很多景点出现爆棚。比如华山事件，形成爆棚-滞留-封堵-更大的滞留的恶性循环。究其原因，主要有哪些地方需要反思？

Jinghua times:11 golden weeks,Many tourist attractions, befriending appear.Huashan events such as,Befriending the formation - retention - plugging - more vicious cycle of detention.Investigate its reason,What are the main places need to reconsider?

　　戴斌：主要是出游的窗口期有限，预订的消费习惯没有形成、预警机制没有完全建立起来以及景区限流、分流措施不完善等三方面原因。

Dai bin:Travel is mainly the window period limited,Reservation spending habits have not been formed/Early warning mechanism not fully established and the current limit/Shunt measures imperfect and so on three aspects reasons.

　　刘思敏：现在重要的任务是“泄洪”。五一长假取消后，“泄洪”的口子少了。我建议恢复五一黄金周，或者在5月设置一个新的长假，满足人们出游的愿望。当然每年的十一黄金周对于一个省旅游的收入占到非常大的比重，有些管理者在潜意识中把收益放在第一位，缺乏与之匹配的接待、服务能力和应对措施。

LiuSiMin:Now the most important task is"Flood discharge".The May Day holiday after the cancellation,"Flood discharge"Cut less.I suggest that restore the May Day holiday week,Or in the may set a new long vacation,To meet the desire of people go on a journey.Of course every 11 golden weeks for a provincial tourism income account for a very big proportion,Some managers in subconscious in the revenue in the first place,Lack of matching reception/Service capacity and countermeasures.

　　京华时报：提前预约的方式一直有，但是为什么总是得不到很好的普及？国外有没有可以借鉴的经验？

Jinghua times:Advance booking has been the way,But why is not always a good popularity?Foreign countries can have the experience of the use for reference?

　　戴斌：国外主要是针对团队采取这样的方式，特别是热门景点，比如卢浮宫、埃菲尔铁塔等。可以像买机票一样，给越往前预约的人越多的优惠，这实际上对旅游的消费形式起到很好的引导作用。

Dai bin:Foreign is mainly aimed at the team to take this way,Especially hot spots,Such as the Louvre/The Eiffel Tower, etc.Can buy a ticket as as,To set the more people the appointment of preferential,This, in fact, to tourism consumption form have very good guidance function.

　　刘思敏：这只是一个技术手段，但我们确实有必要让预约走在路上，培养预约出游的理念。可以现行选择三类景点推行预约：文保类景点、生态类景点和安全管理难度比较大的景点，保护的同时实现稀缺资源的分配公平。

LiuSiMin:This is a technical means,But we do it is necessary to make an appointment walk on the road,Training the concept of travel booking.Can choose the three scenic spots ahead with the appointment:WenBao scenic point/Ecological scenic point and safety management difficult scenic spots,At the same time to realize the protection of the allocation of scarce resources fair.

　　京华时报：现在很多景区都是一天的旅游结束之后统计出一个数据，只有到了那个时候才知道当天景区来了多少人。有没有可能实现实时统计？

Jinghua times:Now many scenic area is a day after tourism statistics shows a data,Only by that time didn't know the scenic area to the many people.Is it possible to realize real-time statistics?

　　戴斌：现在有两种情况，让我们没有办法做到实时的预警。第一个就是有很多景区景点有非购票人数进入；第二个是统计有滞后性，拿不到数据。设定一个底线、实时统计、一旦超过底线不再售票理论上是应该的，但现在急需硬件建设，但方向肯定要这么走。不管怎么说生命高于景观，无论如何当人数超过最大量，应该采取断然的措施。

Dai bin:Now have two kinds of cases,Let us have not been able to be real-time warning.The first was that there are a lot of tourist attractions have not the number of tickets into;The second is statistics have hysteresis quality,Get data.Set a bottom line/Real-time statistics/Once beyond the baseline no longer ticket theory is as it should be,But are in urgent need of hardware construction,But direction must be so go.No matter how to say life above landscape,No matter how to be more than the most a lot,Should be to take certain measures.

　　京华时报：我们很多的景点到底有没有底线人数？如果有，为什么大部分景点从不公布，很少有人知道？

Jinghua times:We are a lot of scenic spots exactly have the bottom line number?If there is,Why most scenic spot never announced,Few know?

　　戴斌：各个景点在规划的时候都有最佳容载量和最大容载量两个指标。很多地方没有对外公布我想有两个原因，第一个是可能它的这两个指标本身是一个摸索的过程，还没有完全固化下来；第二个景区景点也有侥幸的心理，多人进来多收益。公开底线肯定有必要性，但是目前做得不太好。

Dai bin:Each scenic spot in the planning when have the best let capacity and maximum capacity and appropriateness two index.Many places not announced I want to have two reasons,The first one is may these two index itself is a process of groping,Is still not fully curing down;The second tourist attractions also have a psychological,Many people come in more benefit.Open the bottom line must have necessity,But it is not so good.

　　京华时报：我们看到实际上也并不一定是景点的承载量爆棚导致的拥堵，有些拥堵也可能是内部的接待考虑不周导致的。

Jinghua times:We see in fact also is not necessarily attractions, befriending the bearing capacity to congestion,Some congestion also may be internal thoughtless reception in.

　　戴斌：是的，比如游客在景点里面像走迷宫一样，找不到地方，形成回流现象，造成拥堵。这种情况需要建设清晰的指示系统。另外比如热门景区的热点区域，可以采取特殊的处理措施，比如限定时间、加强疏导等。比如故宫，人们都想看看太和殿里面皇帝的龙椅什么样的，挤在一起争相照相，非常容易发生事故。因此长假期间故宫就把太和殿暂时关闭了，让人流动起来，通过语音导览、导游介绍等方式介绍景点，弥补遗憾。

Dai bin:yes,Such as tourist attractions in the inside like labyrinth walk,Can't find a place to,Formation backflow phenomenon,Cause congestion.This kind of situation need to build clear indicator system.Another popular scenic spots such as the hot area,Can take special measures,Such as the time limit/Strengthen counseling, and other.Such as the Forbidden City,People want to see taihe palace inside the emperor's dragon what kind of,Crowded together scramble to photography,Very easy to accident.So during this period the Forbidden City took taihe palace temporarily closed,Let a person flow up,Through the audio Tours/Introduction of guide way attractions,Compensate for regret.

《国民休闲纲要》将推动带薪休假 [National leisure outline]Will promote paid vacation

　　京华时报：高速免费、景区降价……在出台利好的旅游刺激政策的同时，如何能够与承载、接待能力相匹配？各部门之间是不是可以有一定的协同，然后经过科学的测算，出台一揽子的政策？

Jinghua times:High-speed free/Scenic spot price……Introduced in good tourist stimulus policy at the same time,How to work with the bearing/Reception capacity phase matching?Between various departments if we can have certain synergy,And then through scientific calculation,On the policy of the package?

　　戴斌：我们国家有一个假日办，办公室设在国家旅游局，涉及交通、民航、铁路、宗教、旅游、文化等相关部门。节前是做了通报，采取了措施的。如果说没有采取这些措施的话，今年堵的情况、安全的情况可能出的问题更大。

Dai bin:Our country has a JiaRiBan,The office is in the national tourism administration,Involves the transport of/Civil aviation/railway/religious/tourism/Culture and other related departments.Passover is doing the bulletin,Taken measures.If no word of these measures,This year the plugging/Security may be more of a problem out.

　　刘思敏：政府想要惠民，这个出发点是对的，是应该支持的。只是政策出台需要综合性的效果评估。我建议以后十一黄金周就不要免过路费了，变成每年的5月到11月旅游旺季的时候，每个月根据政策力度，拿出一部分时间免过路费，这对周边的自驾游是很大的促进。当然还要建立在利益补充机制的前提下。春节回家是刚需，可以保留免费政策。

LiuSiMin:The government we want,The starting point is right,Should be supported.Just policies need comprehensive effect evaluation.I suggest 11 golden weeks later don't avoid the toll,Into every may and November when the tourist season,According to the policy efforts to every month,Take out time off from toll,The navigator around is great to promote.And of course based on interests under the premise of complementary mechanism.The Spring Festival is just need to go home,Can keep free policy.

　　京华时报：长假制度本身有没有改进的可能？有些人士分析指出，多年前国家推出黄金周拉动内地消费、培育旅游市场的目的已经达到，现在更应该引导民众理性出游、理性消费，同时完善休假制度和劳动法规，让黄金周逐渐“长大”成黄金月甚至黄金年。您怎么看？

Jinghua times:Long vacation system itself may have improved?Some analysts pointed out,Years ago countries launched the golden week pull the mainland consumption/The purpose of cultivating tourism market has reached,Now more should guide people to travel reason/Rational consumption,At the same time perfect holiday system and labor regulations,Let the golden week gradually"Grow up"Into gold months or golden years.How do you see?

　　戴斌：从长远来看，带薪休假是一个方向。我们现在正在推动《国民休闲纲要》的出台。全国人大也已经完成了《旅游法》的一审，进入二审之前的调研。应该说这些制度的出台有利于缓解这样的情况。

Dai bin:In the long run,Paid vacation is a direction.Now we are driving[National leisure outline]Come on stage.The National People's Congress has also completed[supply]first-instance,Enter the second investigation before.It should be said that these system come on stage can help to alleviate this situation.

　　京华时报：《国民休闲纲要》历经多年的热议，其中落实带薪休假制度成为公众的期待。能否透露一下内容和时间表？

Jinghua times:[National leisure outline]After many years of hot debate,The implementation of paid vacation system to become a public expectations.Can you tell us a bit about content and schedule?

　　戴斌：现在热议的错峰休假骨子里讲是带薪休假的现实表现。这个不应该仅仅是法律上有规定、笼统地说你有这个权利就可以的，更需要细则。现在《国民休闲纲要》已经起草完了，各个部委会也已经签完，正在走国务院审批程序。它的主要内容一个是要引导国民旅游休闲的意识，保障国民旅游休闲的权利；第二个是制定了国民旅游休闲的一些具体指标和目标；第三就是推动带薪休假，允许地方政府做一些相应的制度创新；其他的我不好细说。

Dai bin:It's hot discussion of wrong peak holiday skin speak is paid vacation reality performance.This should not be merely the law has a regulation/Generally speaking you have the rights of can,Need more detailed rules.now[National leisure outline]Has drafted the,All ministries and commissions will also has signed the,Go is the state council for examination and approval procedures.Its main content is a will guide the national tourism leisure consciousness,Security of the national tourism leisure rights;The second is to develop the national tourism leisure some concrete index and goals;The third is to boost paid vacation,Allow local governments to do some corresponding system innovation;Other I bad expatiate.

　　京华时报：落实带薪休假制度有具体的时间表吗？跟此前国务院的条例相比，这次《国民休闲纲要》属于政府文件，从位阶上来看没有超过条例，但是为什么备受期待？

Jinghua times:Implement paid vacation system there are specific schedule?After the state council regulations with the compared,the[National leisure outline]Belong to government documents,From the counterparts to see no more than regulation,But why is to look forward to?

　　戴斌：这个时间表还不好具体说。只能说，目前，很多部门都在极力推动，广东、北京等都在积极推动。相比于国务院的条例，它更有操作性，而且它是要通过行政来落实的。

Dai bin:The timetable still bad specific said.Can only say,At present,Many departments are to make every effort to push,guangdong/Beijing, etc are actively promote.Compared to the regulations of the state council,It is more practical,And it is through the implementation of the administrative to.

　　本报记者张然

Our reporter ZhangRan

　　作者：张然 (来源：京华时报)

The author:ZhangRan (source:Jinghua times)