这是荣·弗切尔的近照。在其看来，我们今天目睹的病毒基因多元化，可能和快速变异无关，有可能是病毒长期演化而来的。

This is RON, cher's photo.In their point of view,Virus genetic diversity we see today,May has nothing to do with rapid mutation,Is probably the virus evolved over a long period of time.

　

　■ 人物 S character

　　荣·弗切尔 RON, cher

　　病毒学家、禽流感专家，服务于荷兰鹿特丹伊拉斯姆医学中心研究中心

virologists/Bird flu expert,Service in Rotterdam, the Netherlands ilus research center, medical center

　　一场流感能在人类中间大暴发，“肇事”病毒需要具备三个条件：它是一种前所未见的新病毒，人类不具备抗体；病毒对人体有致死作用；病毒可以快速传播。

Can a flu outbreak among humans,"b."The virus needs to meet three conditions:It is a kind of unprecedented new virus,Humans do not have antibody;The virus has a lethal effect on the human body;Virus can spread quickly.

　　在H5N1病毒出现后，科学家们知道该病毒满足了前两个条件，但并不清楚它到底会如何传播。科学家们希望H5N1病毒能像之前其他一些病毒一样自生自灭。

After the rise of the H5N1 virus,Scientists know that the virus meets the first two conditions,But do not know how is it spread.Scientists hope that the H5N1 virus can die like other viruses before.

　　2011年，荷兰病毒学家荣·弗切尔在一次科学大会上展示了自己的研究结论：H5N1病毒只要发生5个变异，就可以通过空气传播，可能导致危险的流感大暴发。差不多在同一时期，美国的一家实验室得出了类似的研究结论。

In 2011,,Dutch virologist at RON, cher at a science meeting shows own research conclusion:The H5N1 virus as long as five mutation,Can be spread through the air,Can lead to dangerous large outbreaks of flu.Almost at the same time,A laboratory in the United States reached a similar conclusion of research.

　　此后，弗切尔卷入一场历时一年多的争议之中。因为他在实验室里“制造”出了新的H5N1变异病毒。一场“病毒是否会从实验室流出，成为生化武器”的大争论就此展开。弗切尔的研究演变成2012年最具争议的科学事件。

Since then,Eph cher embroiled in a controversy lasted more than a year.Because he was in the lab"manufacturing"A new variation of the H5N1 virus.a"If the virus to flow out from the lab,As chemical and biological weapons"The big debate.Eph cher's research evolved into one of the most controversial science 2012 events.

　　能够制造H5N1变异病毒的荷兰病毒学家弗切尔，在荷兰本土的科研工作并未遭遇任何阻力。不过，在美国，他的研究招致了质疑。鉴于此项研究经费来自美国政府，美国政府则最为担忧被制造的变异病毒沦为生化武器。

Can make the H5N1 strain of the Netherlands virologist, cher,In the domestic research work did not encounter any resistance.but,In the United States,His research led to questions.In view of the research funding from the U.S. government,The U.S. government is most worried mutated virus created a chemical and biological weapons.

　　弗切尔原本在学术期刊上发表论文的计划被搁置了。美国生物安全国家科学咨询委员会开始对弗切尔的研究开展评估，并建议两份全球顶级的学术期刊——美国的《科学》和英国的《自然》——不要发表弗切尔论文中所提及的病毒制造方式，因为他们担心恐怖分子会利用这些细节，开发生化武器。该委员会在2001年炭疽热袭击后成立，这也是其成立后首次提出这类要求。

Eph cher originally published papers in academic journals plans were shelved.Biological safety of the United States national science advisory board to cher's research to carry out the assessment,And recommended two of the world's top academic journal - the United States[science]And the UK[natural]- don't put cher papers published viruses mentioned in manufacturing mode,Because they fear that terrorists may use these details,Development of chemical and biological weapons.The committee was set up after the 2001 anthrax attacks,It is also the first time after it was founded that this kind of request.

　　在大争论中，科学界的意见并不统一。有人认为，病毒外流的风险大过研究本身的价值；也有不少科学家反感于学术自由受到限制，认为科学研究中最重要的一环，便是研究过程公开且能被复制，以便其他科学家可以对此进行验证。此外，也有科学家认为禽流感病毒根本不可能成为实用的武器，因为这些病毒并不能定向制造，而且任何想要使用它的人自己也会被感染。

In the debate,The opinion of the scientific community is not monolithic.Some people think that,Virus outflow risk greater than the value of the study itself;There are many scientists dislike to academic freedom is restricted,Think one of the most important part of the scientific research,Research process is open and can be copied,So that other scientists can verify this.In addition,Scientists believe that the bird flu virus may not also be practical weapon,Because these viruses do not redirect,And anyone who wants to use it yourself will also be infected.

　　即便有美国生物安全国家科学咨询委员会的反对声，《自然》和《科学》最终还是同意刊登包括病毒制造细节在内的研究结果。不过，论文被发表前，要进行两个月的安全评估。而这两个月后来变成了一年。

Even with the biosafety opposition national science advisory committee,[natural]and[science]Eventually agreed to published the results of the study, including virus manufacturing details.but,Before the paper was published,Must carry on the safety assessment of two months.Which later turned out to be a year for two months.

　　弗切尔对这一年的搁置感到“很沮丧”。他在接受新京报记者采访时表示：“最大的威胁来自自然界，而实验室的安全措施都是可以控制的。”

Eph cher shelved feel for this year"Very frustrating".He said in an interview with Beijing news reporter:"The biggest threat comes from nature,And lab safety measures can be controlled."

　　对于目前在中国出现的H7N9禽流感病毒，弗切尔认为，中国科学家当前也遇到了同样的问题，亟待解决：病毒是否可以或者有能力通过空气传播。

For the present H7N9 avian flu virus in China,Eph cher think,Chinese scientists also encountered the same problem at present,Need to be addressed:If the virus or have the ability to spread through the air.

　

　■ 对话 S dialogue

　　“我们制造的病毒没那么危险” "We make the less dangerous virus"

　　新京报：你在实验室进行的H5N1研究以及此后论文引发的争议，备受关注。论文暂停发表的这一年，你是怎么度过的？

The Beijing news:You are in lab for H5N1 research and thesis controversy ever since,Has attracted much attention.Papers published this year,How did you spend?

　　弗切尔：这是相当令人沮丧的一年，充斥各种政治、伦理的讨论，也有很多关于生命科学研究领域中安全和安保的争议。最后，大部分人被说服了，做这样的研究是很重要的，但必须在高度安全的生物实验室内进行。当然，今天还有少数人有意见，认为这样的研究不应该做，研究结论也不应该发表。不过，总体而言，大家认可了这种研究的价值。在当前的H7N9禽流感中，也同样遇到了我们此前遇到的问题：病毒是否可以在哺乳动物中通过空气传播；如果现在还不能的话，病毒将来是否具有这种能力。

Eph cher:This is very frustrating for a year,Full of/Discuss the ethics of,Also has a lot of life science research in the field of safety and security of the controversy.The last,Most people persuaded,To do this research is very important,But must be highly secure, conducted in the laboratory.Of course,,Today there are a few people have opinions,That such research should not do,Research conclusions should not be published.but,On the whole,We recognize the value of this research.In the current H7N9 bird flu,Is also encountered problems we had:If the virus can be transmitted through the air in mammals;If not yet,Whether the virus in the future have this ability.

　　新京报：对于实验室进行禽流感实验可引发安全风险的说法，你持什么观点？

The Beijing news:For the lab for avian influenza can cause security risk,What is your concept?

　　弗切尔：我想这种安全风险是可控的。此外，我们制造的病毒并没有那么危险。即使真有“坏人”，我也不认为他们会对此有兴趣。

Eph cher:I think the security risk is controllable.In addition,We manufacture the virus is not so dangerous.Even if I have"The bad guys",I don't think they will be interested.

　　新京报：H5N1和H7N9病毒的区别是什么？谁的威胁更大？

The Beijing news:What is the difference between the H5N1 and H7N9 virus?Who is a bigger threat?

　　弗切尔：H5N1病毒可能毒性更强，致病能力也更强。相比H5N1，H7N9病毒对动物显现出较低的毒性和致病性，这使得更难找到病毒的源头，因此需要更多的时间来防范人类感染。

Eph cher:The H5N1 virus might be more toxic,Pathogenic ability also is stronger.Compared to the H5N1,H7N9 virus showed low toxicity to animals and pathogenicity,This makes it more difficult to find the source of the virus,So need more time to prevent human infections.

　　新京报：中国科学家现在目前尚不知道到底H7N9病毒是如何从禽类传到人体的，也尚不能肯定其是否会发生人传人的情况。你觉得有哪些传播可能性？

The Beijing news:Chinese scientists now is not yet know whether H7N9 how the virus spread from birds to humans,Also not sure if it will happen human-to-human transmission.What do you think of possibilities?

　　弗切尔：我们需要更多的监测。我想中国专家正在竭尽所能地寻找病毒的来源，我们应该给他们一点时间。这个病毒，因为对鸟类和其他动物来说并不致病，这意味着它比H5N1病毒更难溯源，很多动物因为H5N1死亡，这就容易被发现。中国的专家们必须更仔细地寻找源头，但这需要时间。病毒要拥有人传人的传播能力，这种可能性是很小的。几世纪以来，人类暴露在几百万种(禽)流感病毒中，而真正出现大规模流感则是很少见的。如果人类中出现了新的感染，我们不必过度反应。应该时刻准备着，了解病毒，防范病毒在人类之间传播，但没必要恐慌。

Eph cher:We need more monitoring.I think the Chinese experts are doing everything we can to find the origin of the virus,We should give them a little time.The virus,Because is not pathogenic for birds and other animals,This means that it is much more difficult than the H5N1 virus traceability,A lot of animals died because H5N1,It's easy to be found.Chinese experts will have to find a source more carefully,But it will take time.The spread of virus descendants to owners,This possibility is very small.For centuries,Human exposure to the millions of species(The birds)The influenza virus,The real the pandemic influenza is very rare.If a new infections in humans,We don't have to overreact.Should be ready,Understanding of the virus,Guard against the virus spreading among humans,But there is no need to panic.

　　新京报：科学家们当前知道H7N9病毒变异速度很快，我们如何才能搞清楚病毒往哪个方向发展？是否需要在实验室内进行模拟？

The Beijing news:Scientists now know H7N9 virus mutation is very fast,How can we clear the virus to which direction?Whether to need to simulate in the laboratory?

　　弗切尔：我们还不知道H7N9病毒变异的速度，也不知道它是怎么进化来的。病毒可能是很长一段时间内，首先在动物身上广泛传播的，只不过我们没有看见。我们今天目睹的病毒基因多元化，可能和快速变异无关，有可能是病毒长期演化而来的。如今，中国科学家首先要观察的是这个病毒是否已可以通过空气传播，接下来研究病毒所具有的空气传播的能力。中国科学家绝对有能力做这样的研究。

Eph cher:We don't know H7N9 speed of the virus,Don't know how did it evolve.Virus may be a long time,First of all in animals spread widely,But we didn't see.Virus genetic diversity we see today,May has nothing to do with rapid mutation,Is probably the virus evolved over a long period of time.now,Chinese scientists first is to observe whether the virus can spread through the air,Next the virus has the ability of the air.Chinese scientists is absolutely have the ability to do this research.

　　新京报：过去十年，从H1到H7，我们不断看到新的禽流感病毒威胁人类。你觉得这意味着什么？

The Beijing news:In the past ten years,From the H1 to H7,We constantly see a new human bird flu virus threats.What do you think this means?

　　弗切尔：一个原因可能是，我们现在可以更好地监测到流感暴发。在亚洲出现SARS、H5N1，澳大利亚及马来西亚出现尼帕和亨德拉病毒以及中东的新的冠状病毒后，全球各地的实验室开始寻找更快、更敏锐、更高通量的诊断方法。另一个原因是，为了满足不断增加的人口的需求，我们的农业在发生变化。一些新的农业方式可能令动物病毒进入人体更加容易。

Eph cher:One reason may be that,We can now better monitor to the flu outbreak.SARS in Asia/H5N1,In Australia and Malaysia nipah and hendra viruses and new coronavirus in the Middle East,Laboratories around the world began to look for more quickly/More acute/Higher flux of diagnostic methods.Another reason is that,In order to meet the needs of the rising population,There are changes in our agriculture.Some new way of agriculture can make animal virus enters the body more easily.

　　自然才是人类最大的威胁。我们必须研究来自自然的威胁，防范未来可能发生的严重流感。我们必须全面地了解我们环境中的各种病毒。一种病毒越危险，就越应该去研究。因此，我们需要更多的安全和安保措施，但这不意味着就停止研究，而是应该尽可能降低安全和安保的风险，让这种风险变得微乎其微。——荷兰病毒学家弗切尔

Nature is the greatest threat to mankind.We must study the threat from nature,Prevent future possible serious flu.We must understand all kinds of viruses in our environment.A virus is dangerous,The more you should go to study.so,We need more safety and security measures,But that doesn't mean you stop research,But you should reduce the risk of safety and security as much as possible,Let the risks become minimal.- the Netherlands virologist, cher

　　本版采写

This edition is writing

　　新京报记者 金煜

The Beijing news reporter Jin Yu