【对话背景】 【Dialog background】

　　教育改革牵动人心。在这一重要领域的改革中，公平无疑是一个基础性话题。理念上的教育公平如何对接实践中的教育均衡？普遍性的教育公平如何在具体的经济社会环境中落到实处？教育公平的实现中政府和社会如何形成合力？我们请到刚刚卸任的云南省教育厅厅长罗崇敏，共话教育均衡问题。

Education reform affect the heart。In this important area of the reform，Fair is undoubtedly a basic topic。The concept of the education fair how to butt in the practice of the education balanced？Universal education fair how in specific economic and social environment decline to feet？The realization of education fairness in the government and the society how to form a resultant force？We please to just outgoing head of department of yunnan provincial department of LuoChongMin，GongHua education balance problems。

　　“教育公平具有现实针对性，这包括了起始性公平、过程性公平、结果性公平。”

“Education fair realistic pertinence，This includes the initial sexual fair、Procedural fairness、Outcome fair。”

　　“在发展理念上要‘有教无类’，民办公办一视同仁，促进二者平等竞争、共同发展。”

“In the development concept should be‘No child left behind’，Run by the local people is business alike，To promote the equal competition、Common development。”

　　扩大总量提高质量是基础 Expand the total improve quality is the foundation

　　本报评论部：我们国家在学人口超过2亿，可以说是在办世界上最大规模的教育。教育公平，一直是教育改革的一个中心议题。但有人认为，教育公平只是一个理念，难以落到实处。自2008年起，您担任云南省教育的“当家人”4年多时间，您如何看待这样的说法？

Our PingLunBu：Our country in a population of more than 200 million，Can be said to be in to do the world's most mass education。Education fair，Education reform has been one of the central issues。But some people think that，Education fair is just a concept，Enumerates some difficult to。Since 2008，Your year as yunnan province of education“family”More than 4 years time，How do you think of this statement？

　　罗崇敏：现代教育最大的特点就是教育公平，以人为本。党中央、国务院一直高度重视教育公平，我们基层的履职者也在全力推进教育公平。我认为教育公平具有现实针对性，这包括了起始性公平、过程性公平、结果性公平。

LuoChongMin：Modern education the greatest characteristic is education fair，people-oriented。The party central committee、The state council has always attached great importance to the education fair，We are the resumption in advancing education fair。I think the education fair realistic pertinence，This includes the initial sexual fair、Procedural fairness、Outcome fair。

　　以云南为例，我们今后10年教育发展改革的目标，即“三个共同目标”：使云南教育与全国教育共同发展，使云南的孩子与全国孩子共同成长，使云南各族人民与全国各族人民共同享受教育改革发展成果。这里面最核心的就是教育公平。

In yunnan as an example，Our future 10 years education development and reform goal，namely“Three common goal”：Make yunnan education and national education common development，Make yunnan children grow up together with the children，To the people of all ethnic groups in yunnan province and the Chinese people of all ethnic groups to enjoy education in the fruits of reform and development。This inside the most core is the education fair。

　　要推进教育公平，首先要扩大总量、调整结构，这样能让更多孩子有公平的基本教育机会。其次是要加强学校现代管理，提高教育资源质量，缓解因为质量不均衡而产生的择校等问题。

To promote education equity，First of all to expand the total amount、Adjusting structure，This can let more kids have a fair chance to basic education。Second is to strengthen school modern management，To improve the quality of education resources，Ease because quality is not balanced and produce the problem such as school。

　　本报评论部：中国国情复杂，各地经济社会发展情况和教育方面的政策，也不太一样。云南地处西南边陲，在教育资源的分配与利用方面，有什么难处，又有什么经验？

Our PingLunBu：China's national conditions complex，The local economic and social development and education policy，Also not too same。Located in the southwest border of yunnan，In education in the allocation of resources and using，What is the trouble，What experience？

　　罗崇敏：云南省委、省政府高度重视教育，去年我们在教育上的投入是624亿元。这数字不小，相当于我们5块钱中就有1块多投在教育领域。中央对云南的教育也很支持。不过，云南经济发展还相对落后，要说难，就难在即便中央和省里对云南教育的支持很大，但钱还是不够。

LuoChongMin：Yunnan provincial party committee、The provincial government attaches great importance to education，Last year, we in the education on the investment is 62.4 billion yuan。This small digital，Equivalent to us $5 1 in block cast more in education field。The central authorities to the yunnan education is also very support。but，Yunnan economic development but also is relatively backward，Say difficult，Difficult in even if the central committee and the province of yunnan education support large，But money is not enough。

　　另外一个难点，是我们“点多、面广、战线长”，现在还有几千个市以下的办学点，做到“公平”的难度很大。有什么破解之道呢？我们的一个办法是进行农村中小学布局调整，通过科学分析、合理规划来收缩校点。这几年撤销了324所中小学，另外撤了8000多个市以下的点。先建后拆，拆了以后还要加强管理。我们努力建设寄宿制学校，西方发达国家在寄宿制学校学习的学生是“贵族”，在云南却是贫困地区、落后地区、农村的孩子上寄宿制学校。另外就是，加强教育信息化的建设，我们要用信息化的手段整合利用优质教育资源，包括国际国内的优质教育资源。

Another difficulty，Is our“Point more、Surface wide、Front long”，Now there are thousands of city the following office learns a dot，do“fair”'s very difficult。What is the way of crack？One of our method is for the layout and adjustment of rural middle and primary school，Through scientific analysis、Reasonable planning to JiaoDian contraction。Over the past few years withdrew 324 primary and secondary schools，In addition from the more than 8000 city the following point。After the first built and，After the removal and strengthening management。We strive to build a boarding school，The western developed countries in residential school learning of the students are“noble”，In yunnan is poor areas、Backward area、The rural children boarding school。The other is the，Strengthen the education informatization construction，We want to use the information, the use of integration means high quality education resources，Including the domestic and international high quality education resources。

　　不能把民办学校工具化 Can't leave school of run by the local people tools

　　本报评论部：如果说教育公平是一种价值目标，那么，要在现实中尽可能地接近公平，您认为最重要的是什么？

Our PingLunBu：If the education fair is a kind of value target，so，In reality as much as possible close to the fair，Do you think is the most important？

　　罗崇敏：实现教育公平，前提要实现教育均衡发展。现在，我们的教育均衡还存在一些问题，包括地区之间、城乡之间等等。要推动教育均衡发展，还得从根本上努力。从云南的实践来看，我觉得有几点比较重要。

LuoChongMin：Realize education fair，The premise to realize the balanced development of education。now，Our education balanced also has some problems，Including region between、Between urban and rural areas and so on。To promote the balanced development of education，Still have to fundamentally efforts。From the practice of yunnan to see，I feel the time is important。

　　首先是要把义务教育的均衡发展作为重中之重，这是教育均衡的基础和关键。云南省和教育部签订了《义务教育均衡发展备忘录》，要调动各个方面的积极性，把促进义务教育的均衡发展作为重点任务落实下去。

The first thing is to the compulsory education of balanced development as the top priority，This is the base and key of education equilibrium。Yunnan province and the ministry of education signed《Compulsory education balanced development memo》，To mobilize the enthusiasm of all aspects，To promote the balanced development of compulsory education as the key tasks implement down。

　　其次是调整教育投资结构。要把教育投资重点放在农村、边疆、少数民族地区，增加这些地区的教育资源总量。同时，在有条件的城市地区，还要鼓励社会力量兴办民间教育，包括民办幼儿、小学、中学和大学教育。通过调整民办和公办的教育资源结构，调整教育资源的投资结构。

Second is to adjust the education investment structure。The education investment focus on rural、frontier、Minority areas，Increase the area of education resources amount。At the same time，In the conditions of the urban area，But also encourages the sectors of society to establish civil education，Including private early childhood、Elementary school、High school and university education。By adjusting the private and public of the education resource structure，Adjust education resources investment structure。

　　第三是进一步健全资助教育。包括义务教育阶段“两免一补”的资助体系、生活补助资助体系，还有困难补助体系建设。去年云南投资了157亿元，使700多万学生得到了资助。

The third is to further improve the funding education。Including compulsory education stage“Two free for a”Funding system、Living subsidies support system，There are difficult allowance system construction。Yunnan investment 15.7 billion yuan last year，Make more than 700 students got the funding。

　　本报评论部：您刚刚提到要鼓励社会力量兴办民间教育，在实现教育均衡发展、促进教育公平上，民办教育能起到什么样的作用？

Our PingLunBu：You just mentioned to encourage sectors of society to establish civil education，In realizing education balanced development、To promote the education fairness，Private education can play the role of what？

　　罗崇敏：如果仅把民办教育作为增加教育资源的一种补充的话，是把民办教育的发展工具化了。这样就容易带来恶性循环：把民办教育工具化，民办教育也把教育工具化。怎么理解呢？如果把民办教育当做工具，就只是用它来吸引投资，而投资机构也自然会把教育作为赚钱工具。这样就达不到我们发展民办教育的根本目的。

LuoChongMin：If only to education run by the local people as increase education resources of a kind of supplementary words，The education run by the local people is the development of the tool。It'll be easier to bring a vicious circle：The private education tools，Private education and education tools。How to understand?？If the private education as a tool，Just use it to attract investment，And investment institutions also will naturally put education as a tool to make money。Such constitute no we develop the fundamental aim of education run by the local people。

　　我认为，大力发展民办教育是变革办学体制、注入教育活力、提高教育竞争力、提升国家教育素质的一种战略选择。不管是私立学校、公立学校，都是我们民族的学校；不管是民办教育、公办教育，都是我们中国的教育。

I think，Vigorously develop the private education is change the school-running system、Injection education vitality、Improve education competitiveness、Improve the quality of the national education a strategic choice。Whether private schools、Public schools，Are our national schools；Whether private education、Public education，Are our Chinese education。

　　在发展理念上要“有教无类”，民办公办一视同仁，促进二者平等竞争、共同发展。在准入体制上要“有教无类”，让更多有志于教育的社会人士将自己的实业资本转入教育资产兴办教育。在教师待遇上要“有教无类”，建立统一保障体系，打通民办教育和公办教育教师的“立交桥”，使人才能在两类学校之间自由流动。对学生同样要“有教无类”，社会要以公平的眼光看待两类学校的学生。

In the development concept should be“No child left behind”，Run by the local people is business alike，To promote the equal competition、Common development。In the access to the system“No child left behind”，Let more interested in education society personage will own industrial capital into the education assets by education。In the teachers' treatment should be“No child left behind”，Establish a unified security system，Through private education and public education teachers“flyover”，That man can in two kinds of free flow between schools。To the student have the same“No child left behind”，Society at a fair look at two kinds of school students。

　　特别是，教育管理方面也要“有教无类”，不能对公办教育是一套管理，对民办教育是另一套模式。我刚到云南教育厅时，相关机构还叫“民办教育管理处”，我把“管理”两个字取消，叫“民办教育处”，它体现的就是公平。当然，民办学校、公办学校都要统一依法进行管理。

especially，Education management also“No child left behind”，Unable to public education is a set of management，For private education is another set of mode。I have just arrived in yunnan provincial when，Relevant organizations still call“Private education administration”，I put“management”Two words cancel，call“Education run by the local people”，It embodies is fair。Of course，School of run by the local people、Public schools are to unified management in accordance with law。

　　压力产生的动力是改革的源泉 Pressure produces motivation is the source of the reform

　　本报评论部：教育改革事关千家万户。您任职期间，推行了“三生教育”（生命、生存、生活教育）和中考、高考等多项改革。在进行这些创新和改革时，是否有压力呢？您如何对待这些压力？

Our PingLunBu：Education reform is thousands of households。Your term of office，Introduced a“My education”（life、survival、Life education）And tests、The university entrance exam reform, etc。In the innovation and reform of the，If there is a pressure?？How do you treat the pressure？

　　罗崇敏：的确会有压力，但压力会使我产生更多的动力，这才是我们推进各个方面改革和发展的源泉。我们处在改革开放的年代，改革的潮流势不可当、也不可逆转。改革必然要承担风险，要面对种种挑战，特别是要面对这些压力。

LuoChongMin：Indeed there will be pressure，But pressure makes me to produce more power，This is we promote the reform and development of all aspects of the source。We are in the age of reform and opening up，The trend of the reform of the irresistible、Also irreversible。Reform must take the risk，To face the challenges，Especially in the face of the pressure。

　　我和我的同事们所走过的改革之路，整个过程都是要承担一种责任。改革的出发点、动机和落脚点都是为了实现好、发展好、保护好人民群众的利益，所以改革不是个人行为，而是一种责任。认识到这一点，才能产生一种动力，更好地履行职责。在改革的过程中，来自于方方面面对我的不理解你都要理解，但是改革的价值取向、改革的最终目的一定要从人民的利益出发，而不是个人的私利，更不是作秀。

My colleagues and I are walking the road of reform，The whole process is to bear a responsibility。The starting point of the reform、Motivation and the foothold is in order to realize the good、Development good、To protect the people's interests，So reform is not a personal behavior，But a kind of responsibility。To realize this point，To produce a kind of power，To better perform their duties。In the process of reform，From the party aspects in the face of my don't understand you will understand，But the value orientation of the reform、The final purpose of reform must be from the people's interests，Rather than personal self-interest，More not show。

　　正如我在卸任讲话中谈到的，我非常幸运，遇到了一个充满变革而富有活力的时代，这个时代给我和我所从事的事业的发展提供了很多的机遇和挑战。在履职过程中，我总是在思想上和实践中力求表达人类的信仰、国家的意志、民众的立场和个人的情怀。

As I talked about in the outgoing speech，I am very lucky，Met a full of change and be full of vigor of the age，This time give me and I are engaged in the development of the career offers many opportunities and challenges。In the process of resumption，I always thought and practice, tries to express the belief that human beings、Countries will、The position of the public and personal feelings。

　　（更多访谈内容见人民网强国论坛）

（More interviews to see people net power BBS）