人物介绍 intro

　　张卓元，中国社科院学部委员、经济所研究员、博士生导师。上个世纪80年代曾主持中国社会科学院财贸经济研究所工作，出任第二任所长，曾受当时的国家体改委委托成立课题组研究国家经济体制中期(1988-1995)改革纲要。1995年至1998年出任中国社会科学院经济研究所所长。

ZhangZhuoYuan,Chinese academy of social sciences strand/Economy researchers/Doctoral tutor.In the 80 s was presided over by the Chinese academy of social sciences institute of tier,As director of the second,Was authorized by national circular at that time was established research study in the middle of the national economic system(1988-1995)The reform program.From 1995 to 1998 served as director of the economic research institute, Chinese academy of social sciences.

　　上世纪90年代中期以来，张卓元专注于深化国有企业改革和完善基本经济制度的研究，提出了加快中央企业改革步伐、积极引进国内民间资本和外资、改善产权结构等一系列主张。他还反对用通货膨胀的政策来支撑经济的超高速增长，主张“稳中求进”的改革发展思路。

Since the mid 1990 s,ZhangZhuoYuan focus on deepening the reform of state-owned enterprises and improve the basic economic system of research,Speed up the pace of the central enterprise reform are put forward/Actively introduce domestic private capital and foreign investment/To improve the property right structure and so on a series of claim.He also opposed by the policy of inflation to support high-speed economic growth,claim"WenZhongQiuJin"The reform and development of ideas.

　　2013年是中共中央新一届领导集体的开局之年，刚刚闭幕的中央经济工作会议对明年的经济工作做出重要部署，会议明确将以更大的政治勇气和智慧推动下一步改革。

2013 is the new collective leadership of the CPC central committee of the start of the year,Just closing the central economic work conference on economic work next year to make important deployment,Conference will be greater political courage and wisdom for further reform.

　　新年需要新气象，改革需要新动力。在世界经济艰难复苏的大环境下，中国经济呈现出增速回落但筑底企稳的态势，明年的宏观经济走势如何？推进下一步改革的突破口是什么？如何才能实现中国经济持续健康发展？这些都成为人们展望新年时高度关注的话题。

Need New Year new atmosphere,Reform need to PC.In the world economy difficult recovery environment,China's present economic growth fell but stabilising built at the end of the trend,The macroeconomic trends for the next year?What is the breakthrough to push forward the reform of the next step?How to realize the sustained and healthy development of China's economy?These are all people the subject of attention when looking forward to the New Year.

　　南方都市报时局版从今天开始推出“展望2013”系列专题报道，从改革的顶层设计、城镇化、财税制度、国际贸易、社会法治、食品安全、社会保障等多个领域采访国内顶级专家。这些领域是突破未来经济发展瓶颈的关键，也是改革总体规划中的重点难点问题。

Southern metropolis daily situation version from now on"Looking forward to 2013"Series project report,From the top of the reform of the design/urbanization/Fiscal and taxation system/The international trade/The rule of law society/The food safety/Social security and other fields to interview top domestic experts.These areas is the key to break through the bottleneck of economic development in the future,Which is a difficult problem in the overall plan of the key reform as well.

　　改革开放以来，中国的社会主义市场经济体制改革一直受益于“摸着石头过河”的探索，如今中央多次强调改革的系统性、整体性、协同性问题，要从更规范的角度对改革进行顶层设计和总体规划。

Since the reform and opening up,China's socialist market economic system reform has been benefited from"Across the river by groping the stone"The exploration of,Now the central repeatedly stressed that the reform of the system/integrity/Collaborative problem,To reform from the Angle of the more standard top design and overall planning.

　　开启新一轮改革已经成为十八大后各方凝聚的共识，下一步改革的路径和突破口将是各方探讨的关键。中国社科院学部委员张卓元日前接受南方都市报专访，回顾中国社会主义市场经济体制改革走过的路径，为下一步改革突破口提出建议。

Opens a new round of reform has become a big 18 after the agreement of the parties,The next step in the reform of path and breakthrough will be the key to all parties to discuss.Member of Chinese academy of social sciences strand ZhangZhuoYuan accept southern metropolis daily before interview,Review of China's socialist market economic system reform through the path,For the next breakthrough reform Suggestions.

　　张卓元是十四大以来社会主义市场经济体制改革的亲历者。作为中国当代著名经济学家，他先后参与了中共十五大、十六大、十七大报告的起草工作。他还参与了中共十四届三中全会、中共十六届三中全会重要文件的起草工作，这两次全会在中国20年来社会主义市场经济体制改革历史进程中发挥了重要的作用。

ZhangZhuoYuan is fourteen of the socialist market economic system reform since the big invaluable.As a contemporary Chinese famous economist,He took part in the communist party of China 15/The 16 th/The drafting of 17 large report.He also participated in the communist party at the third plenary session of the fourteenth/At the third plenary session of the communist party of China 16 important documents of the drafting,This two session in China 20 years history in the process of the socialist market economic system reform has played an important role.

　　如今，年近八旬的张卓元一如既往地关注着中国经济发展的前沿问题，并不时提出真知灼见。他认为下一步改革的突破口是政府改革，要转变政府在经济活动中的角色。正像十八大报告所提出的，经济体制改革的核心问题是要处理好政府和市场的关系。

now,Nearly years of ZhangZhuoYuan continue to focus on the frontier of China's economic development,Is not when insight.He thinks the next breakthrough is the reform of government reform,To change the role of government in economic activity.As the eighteenth big reports,The core of the reform of economic system is to properly handle the relationship between government and market.

　　“抓改革要得罪人，特别是得罪一些既得利益群体。”张卓元对未来改革面临的阻力有充分的预判，他强调要重新认识改革，抓住改革的真义，要认识到形势会逼着人改革，改革将有助于实现中国经济的持续健康发展。

"Grasp the reform to upset people,Especially against vested interest groups."ZhangZhuoYuan the resistance in the reform for the future is full of anticipation,He stressed that to know reform,Grasp the true meaning of the reform,Realize that the situation will force the reform of the people,Reform will help to realize the sustainable and healthy development of China's economy.

　　克服既得利益阻碍要靠顶层推动 Overcoming vested interest block depends on top

　　南都：2012年是确立社会主义市场经济制度二十周年，你曾多次参与中共代表大会重要文件的起草工作，现在回顾1993年的十四届三中全会和2003年的十六届三中全会先后对社会主义市场经济体制改革做出的部署，我国主要推进了哪些改革？

SMW:2012 is the twentieth anniversary of the establishment of the socialist market economic system,You have many times to participate in the drafting party congress of important documents,Now review in 1993. In 2003 and adopted at the third plenary session of the 16 th the third plenary session has to make the deployment of the socialist market economic system reform,Major which promote the reform of our country?

　　张卓元：十四届三中全会出台《中共中央关于建立社会主义市场经济体制若干问题的决定》，十六届三中全会提出的完善社会主义市场经济体制，都是很好的改革顶层设计。整个20世纪90年代后期的改革推进得比较快，包括国有企业改革、加入世贸组织、包括政府用间接手段进行宏观调控、包括分配制度的改革等实现得比较好。2003年以后，推进的改革主要有股权分置改革、几大商业银行的上市、集体林权制度的改革、外资企业和中资企业的企业所得税统一合并、社会保障制度的建立等等。

ZhangZhuoYuan:At the third plenary session of 14[The CPC central committee on establishing a socialist market economy system some problems of the decision],16 at the third plenary session of the proposed improvement of the socialist market economic system,Conceptual design is very good reform.The reform in the late 1990 s faster,Including the reform of state-owned enterprises/Accession to the wto/Including government use indirect means of macroeconomic regulation and control/Including the reform of distribution system, realize the better.2003 years later,Promote the reform of non-tradable share reform, there are/Several of the listed commercial Banks/The reform of collective forest right system/Foreign enterprises and Chinese enterprises of the unification of enterprise income tax/The establishment of the social security system and so on.

　　南都：20年来的改革对我们的启发是什么？

SMW:Twenty years of reform of our inspiration is what?

　　张卓元：我觉得最重要是，当时认真总结了上世纪80年代改革的经验，确立社会主义市场经济体制改革目标，从领导到一般老百姓都有一个共识。因为80年代取得的成效让大家感觉到市场取向的改革大大解放了生产力，而且使得老百姓得到实惠。因此建立社会主义市场经济体制成为改革的目标，在领导的推动下，各个方面很快就达成共识，实现经济的快速增长。

ZhangZhuoYuan:I think the heaviest if,Summing up the experience of the reform in the 1980 s at that time,Establishment of the socialist market economic system reform goal,From the leadership to the common people, there is a consensus.Because the effectiveness of the 80's to let everyone feel the market orientation of the reform has greatly liberated the productive forces,And makes people get real benefit.So establish the socialist market economic system has become the goal of the reform,Driven by the leadership,Every aspect of an agreement soon,To realize the rapid economic growth.

　　南都：为什么下一步的改革更强调顶层设计？进入深水区的改革与以往改革最大的不同是什么？

SMW:Why the next reform more emphasis on conceptual design?Into the deep water area reform and previous reform is the biggest different?

　　张卓元：最大的不同是我们现在的改革要面对已经形成的既得利益群体。这方面在过去不是太明显，曾经也有。比如1990年我还在中国社科院财贸所工作的时候，各方面提出要对生产资料价格双轨制并轨，准备破除“计划内”和“计划外”的价格体制。但有些主管部门不愿意放弃价格的管理权，因为有审批权就有利益，一放开就没有利益。当时也有这种利益，但不像现在这么明显。

ZhangZhuoYuan:The biggest difference is that we now face the reform of the vested interest group has been formed.This is not too obvious. In the past,Ever also have.Such as 1990, I was still in the Chinese academy of social sciences CaiMaoSuo work,Offered to all aspects of production material price double speed,Ready to break"In the plan"and"unplanned"The price of the system.But some department is not willing to give up the power of the price,Because there are new rights have interests,A let go, there is no interest.At that time also have this kind of interests,But not like now so obvious.

　　现在主要是垄断行业的利益、政府官员审批权的利益，这些都很厉害的，在这种情况下，如果没有中央比较周密的考虑、有个好的总体规划和顶层设计，就很难推进改革。而且还要有强力的推动，要有顶层的推动。

Now the main is in the interests of the monopoly industries/The interests of the government officials new rights,These are very bad,In this case,If there is no central more careful consideration/Have a good overall planning and conceptual design,It is difficult to promote reform.But also have a strong boost,To have the top.

　　还有多年来形成的一个惯性就是，抓发展很重视，也很实在，但好像抓改革要得罪人，特别是得罪一些既得利益群体，所以有些干部不太愿意去得罪人。这种惯性不打破，也很难让改革深入一步。抓发展有政绩，抓改革却容易得罪人，何苦来呢。所以我们要重新认识改革，抓住改革的真义。

There is a inertia is the formation of for many years,Attaches great importance to grasp development,Is it,But seem to grasp the reform to upset people,Especially against vested interest groups,So some cadres doesn't want to upset people.The inertia is not broken,It is hard to let step further reform.Grasp development achievements,Grasp the reform is easy to upset people,Why to come?.So we need to rethink the reform,Grasp the true meaning of the reform.

　　地方政府公司化介入市场过深 Company of local government intervention in the market too deep

　　南都：在十八大之后，国务院副总理李克强强调改革仍然是最大的红利。我们应该如何进一步推动经济改革，你认为经济改革的突破口在哪里？

SMW:In the eighteenth big after,Vice premier li keqiang stressed that the reform is still the biggest bonus.We should be how to further promote economic reform,Where do you think the breakthrough of economic reform?

　　张卓元：从十八大到中央经济工作会议都提出了要用更大的勇气和智慧推进下一步改革，显然新的领导班子对改革更加重视。因为经济发展到这一步，如果不深化改革，很多积累的问题和难题，包括转变经济发展方式、调整经济结构等方面已经很难推进了，所以必须要通过深化改革来推动经济发展方式转变，经济发展的客观形势要求必须加快推进改革。

ZhangZhuoYuan:From 18 to central economic work conference are put forward to use more courage and wisdom, promote the reform of the next step,Apparently the new leadership to reform pay more attention to.Because of the economic development to this step,If you don't to deepen the reform,A lot of problems and difficulties,Including the mode of economic development/Has been difficult to promote the adjustment of economic structure, etc,So must through deepening reform to promote the economic development mode shift,The objective situation requires must accelerate the reform of the economic development.

　　我认为改革突破口是政府改革，是政府职能的转换。十八大报告提出，经济体制改革的核心问题要处理好政府和市场的关系。现在要在更大程度、更广范围发挥市场资源配置的基础性作用。如果要做到这一条，政府改革很关键。

I think the point is the government reform,Is the conversion of government function.The eighteenth big report,The reform of economic system is the core of problems to deal with the relationship between government and market.Now to be greater/A wider range of play the basic role of market allocation of resources.If you want to do this one,Government reform is the key.

　　现在政府改革面临的主要问题有三个方面：第一是政府在资源配置方面介入过深，成了资源配置的主角，比如直接招商引资、直接抓项目、干预很多民营企业项目等，政府应当从介入过深的经济领域逐步退出，不再充当资源配置主角；二是政府在公共服务方面又比较缺位；三是市场监管方面还不到位，政府很大精力都去推动经济增长了，以至于食品安全等问题层出不穷。

Now the main problems of government reform has three aspects:The first is government intervention in the allocation of resources in deep,In the role of the allocation of resources,Such as direct investment promotion and capital introduction/Directly on project/Intervention in many private enterprises, etc,Government should from the deep involvement in the economy gradually exit,No longer serve as the allocation of resources;The second is the government in public services and more vacancy;Three is the market supervision aspect is not in place,The government a lot of energy into promoting economic growth,That food safety problems emerge in endlessly.

　　南都：政府介入市场活动过多过深，造成这种现象的主要原因是什么？

SMW:Government intervention in the market activities too much too deep,What is a major cause of this phenomenon?

　　张卓元：当前较大的问题是不少地方政府公司化，地方政府首脑充当当地经济活动的董事长和总经理。由于我国长时期都以G D P增速作为政府官员政绩大小的主要考核指标，而政府官员实行任期制，一般五年一任期，不少官员为了追逐自己的千秋业绩，都全力以赴使任期内G D P增速最大化，往往运用手中权力搞粗放扩张、拼资源、拼环境，因为粗放扩张最能在短期内见成效出政绩。

ZhangZhuoYuan:The bigger problem is that many local government corporatization,Head of the local government act as chairman and general manager of the local economic activity.Because our country long period with G D P growth as the size of government officials achievements mainly evaluation index,By adopting and government officials,A term commonly five years,Many officials in order to pursue their own century,Everything that term G D P maximize growth,Often use hand power make extensive expansion/Spell it resources/Shopping environment,Because of the extensive expansion can see effect in the short term the achievements.

　　我国一些高耗能产业已经过剩，但是至今仍有一些资源比较丰富的地区继续发展这些产业，地方政府擅自降低能源价格(如电价)来鼓励这些产业发展，形成不平等竞争格局，致使产能过剩问题加剧，而作为约束性指标的能耗降低指标则连年没有完成计划。因此，要加快转变经济发展方式，必须转变政府职能，政府不再以主力运动员身份参与市场竞争，不再带头搞粗放扩张，不顾后果地追求短期G D P最快增速。

Some heavy manufacturing industry in China has surplus,But still have some of the resources is rich areas continue to develop these industries,The local government lower energy prices without authorization(Such as the price)To encourage the development of the industry,Formation of unfair competition,The problem of excess capacity,As binding index of reduce energy consumption index in successive years is complete plan.so,To accelerate transformation of the mode of economic development,Must change the functions of government,The government will no longer participate in market competition as a team player,No longer take the lead to make extensive expansion,Reckless pursuit of short-term G D P fastest rate.

　　我还要强调，政府的审批体制一定要下大决心来改革，这项改革牵涉到政府中很多有审批权力的官员，如果不动真格的话，很难推进。这种审批成本太高、效率太低，要花多少钱请客送礼啊！这说明我国的商业环境仍需大力改进，政府的服务意识和职能仍需大大增强。

I would like to emphasize,Under the system of examination and approval of the state must big determination to reform,This reform involves many of the examination and approval power in the government officials,If it's not real,It is difficult to promote.This cost is too high for examination and approval/Efficiency is too low,How much does it cost to treat it as a gift!This shows that still need to improve the business environment in China,The government still needs to improve service consciousness and functions.

　　南都：过去十年，从中央到地方都在推进行政审批制度改革，比如国务院部门已先后六批取消和调整了2497项行政审批项目，占原有总数的约七成。这些改革成效怎么样？

SMW:In the past ten years,From central to local in promote the reform of administrative examination and approval system,Such as the department under the state council has has six batches of cancellation and adjusted the 2497 items of administrative examination and approval,Accounts for about seventy percent of the total number of the original.These reforms?

　　张卓元：值得注意的是，问题不在于行政审批项目的取消上。比如有10项审批，取消了9项，剩下一项，然后把已经取消的审批项目打包到留下的那一项中去，那这种改革等于零啊！所以只说取消多少项审批是没用的，还要看实质取消了多少。

ZhangZhuoYuan:It is important to note that,The question is not administrative examination and approval on the cancellation of the project.Such as 10 for examination and approval,Cancel the 9,Left a,Then has the cancellation of the approval package to leave a,That this reform is equal to zero!So just say cancel item how much it's useless to examination and approval,Depends on how much essence is cancelled.

　　收入分配改革关键要解决灰色收入 Income distribution reform key to solve the gray income

　　南都：如何看待收入分配改革？新时期应该如何理解效率与公平的关系？

SMW:How about income distribution reform?In the new period should be how to understand the relationship between efficiency and fairness?

　　张卓元：中国收入分配存在不合理现象，不断做大的“蛋糕”没有切好、分配好，居民收入差距过大(接近0.5)，已成为各界共识。由于居民消费支出在国内生产总值中比重在进入21世纪以后连年下降，从2000年的46.4%降到2011年的34 .9%，致使消费需求不足，消费对经济增长的拉动作用减弱，经济增长过分倚重投资和出口，影响了经济增长的协调性和可持续性。

ZhangZhuoYuan:China's income distribution is not reasonable,Continue to do big"The cake"Don't cut the good/Distribution of good,Income gap(Close to 0.5),Has become a consensus among all walks of life.Because of residents' consumption expenditure in the gross domestic product (GDP) ratio in the 21 st century after years of decline,From 46.4% in 2000 to 2011 years of 34. 9%,The insufficient consumer demand,Consumption of weakened role in boosting economic growth,Economic growth too rely on investment and exports,Impact on the economic growth of the coordination and sustainability.

　　收入分配改革，我认为最重要的是要缩小不合理的收入差距。现在的收入差距有一部分是合理的，比如人力资本投入比较大、知识水平高或技术熟练、工作经验积累等因素造成的收入差距应该是合理的。但据估算50%以上的收入差距是不合理的，最重要的表现就是权钱交易，有些人通过非法的不合理的灰色收入这部分是应该解决的。所以最重要的是解决分配不公的问题。

The reform of income distribution,I think the most important thing is to narrow the income gap is not reasonable.Now part of the income gap is reasonable,Such as human capital investment is larger/Knowledge level is high or skilled/Experience accumulation factors such as the income gap should be reasonable.But an estimated 50% of the income gap is not reasonable,The most important performance is trading,Some people through the illegal unreasonable this part should be solved in the gray income.So the most important thing is to solve the problem of unfair distribution.

　　南都：这项改革迟迟难以启动，面临的阻力很大。

SMW:It is hard to start the reform",The resistance is very large.

　　张卓元：既得利益集团的力量很强大，若非顶层发力，则很难撼动。当然底下也得施加压力，使自下而上的压力和自上而下的改革力量形成合力。实践证明，光有顶层设计，没有实际推动，这种顶层设计往往会被束之高阁。

ZhangZhuoYuan:Of the vested interest group is very powerful,If not the top hair,It is hard to shake.Of course under pressure, too,Makes the reform of the pressure of the bottom-up and top-down force form a cohesive force.Practice has proved,Light has top design,No actual driving,The top-level design tends to be on the shelf.

　　南都：你曾说过财政要加快向公共服务财政转型，这是为什么？

SMW:You said finance to speed up the financial transformation to public service,This is why?

　　张卓元：财政转型看起来属于财政体制改革，实际上是政府改革的重要内容。如果政府是经济建设型政府，那么财政必然是经济建设型财政，财政支出尽量用于搞经济建设。现在政府要向服务型转轨，财政自然要跟着向公共服务型转轨。

ZhangZhuoYuan:Fiscal transition seems to belong to the financial system reform,In fact is the important content of the reform of the government.If the government is a government economic construction,So the financial is necessarily economic construction budget,Spending as much as possible for economic construction.Now the government to service-oriented transformation,Financial nature should follow to public service transition.

　　我国财政用于公共服务的支出占财政总支出的比例一直严重偏低，离公共服务型财政的要求很远。比如2008年，中国医疗卫生支出占财政支出比重为4.4%，社会保障与就业服务支出占财政支出比重为10 .9%，两项合计为15.3%，比人均G D P为3000～6000美元阶段国家平均31%左右的水平低了一半多。2011年，情况并未有多少好转，当年我国医疗卫生支出和社会保障与就业服务支出占财政支出比重仍只占16%。在某种程度上可以说，财政转型是政府转型的最重要标志。

Finance in our country the proportion of the total financial expenditure for public services has been severely low,Far away from the public service oriented financial requirements.Such as 2008,,China's health spending accounted for 4.4% of the proportion of fiscal expenditure,Social security and employment services spending fiscal expenditure proportion of 10. 9%,Two total 15.3%,Per capita than G D P for $3000 to $6000 stage national average about 31% of the low level of more than half.In 2011,,Situation is not how much better,In health care spending in China and social security and employment services spending fiscal expenditure proportion still accounts for only 16%.To some extent can say,The most important symbol of fiscal transition is the transformation of government.

　　国有企业战略性调整没有到位 Strategic adjustment of the state-owned enterprises did not reach the designated position

　　南都：对国企改革如何评价？下一步应该注意什么问题？

SMW:Reform of state-owned enterprises how to evaluate?The next step should be paid attention to what problem?

　　张卓元：国有企业改革也有改革不够的地方，比如国有企业特别是很多中央企业还没有实现公司化和股份制的改革，国有资产管理体制的改革还有很多空白的地方，比如金融资产怎么管、非经营性资产怎么管、自然资源资产怎么管，现在这些方面的改革还没有进行，起码连个机构还没有确立起来。

ZhangZhuoYuan:The reform of state-owned enterprises reform is also not enough,Such as state-owned enterprises especially many central enterprises haven't realize the company and the reform of shareholding system,The reform of the state-owned assets management system there are a lot of blank,How financial assets such as tube/Non - operational assets how tube/How natural resources assets tube,These reforms have not now,At least even a institution has not been established.

　　国有经济的战略性调整也还没有到位，国有企业还是太多，而且很多国有企业还在竞争性领域，包括很多国有企业都在搞房地产，房地产不是这些企业的主业但因为赚钱就争相进入，这不符合国有经济本身的定位。近几年说要房地产不是主业的国有企业特别是央企要退出房地产领域，实现得并不理想，退出了一些，但后续的问题也比较多，最主要的是房地产的利益比较多。

The strategic adjustment of state-owned economy is not in place,The state-owned enterprise is still too much,And many state-owned enterprises in competitive industries,Including many state-owned enterprises are engaged in real estate,Real estate is not these enterprises the main but because money is scrambling to enter,It's not conform to the state-owned economy itself.To real estate in recent years than in state-owned enterprise especially renmin to exit the real estate field,Implementation is not ideal,From some of the,But subsequent problems also more,The most important is in the interests of the real estate is more.

　　南都：在国企改革方面，近年来出现了局部领域的“国进民退”，你怎么看待这个现象？如何真正打破垄断，实现各种所有制经济平等发展？

SMW:In the reform of the state-owned enterprises,In recent years, the local areas"Into nations back",What do you think of this phenomenon?How to break the monopoly,Realize the equality of all kinds of ownership economy development?

　　张卓元：关于国进民退的问题，从整体上的统计数据看，并不支持这个说法，因为从整体上看民营经济还是发展得快。但是在有些地区和领域，“国进民退”现象是有的。比如有个很赚钱的民营钢铁企业，但当地政府通过行政手段一定要它并入国有企业，这种现象就有问题了。

ZhangZhuoYuan:Questions about back into nations,Overall statistics,Does not support this claim,Because on the whole the private economy is developing fast.But in some regions and areas,"Into nations back"Phenomenon is there.For example, there is a very profitable private steel enterprise,But the local government through administrative means it must be incorporated into state-owned enterprises,This phenomenon has problem.

　　另外，现在有些垄断部门对引入新的竞争主体设置了很多障碍。尽管国务院先后两度推出“非公36条”，但由于垄断的高额利润诱惑和既得利益集团的势力强大，这些条款落实得并不理想。最主要的原因是这些条款都是由原来的垄断部门自己设定的，而没有很好地从民营企业的角度来看民营企业希望进入哪些领域。应该把二者结合起来，不能只让供给方来提方案，需求方也要提出希望进入哪些领域。现在放松的领域都是利润很少的领域。

In addition,Now some monopoly department to introduce new competition main body set up many obstacles.Although the state council has twice"In this article 36",But due to the high monopoly profits and the temptation of powerful vested interest groups,These terms carry out is not ideal.The main reason is that these terms are set by the original monopoly department yourself,But not very well from the point of view of private enterprise which field do you want to enter the private enterprises.Should combine both,Can't let suppliers' scheme,Demanders will wish to enter what areas are put forward.Now relax areas were of little profit.

　　南都：国企利润如何更好地实现全民共享？

SMW:Soe profit how to better achieve universal sharing?

　　张卓元：按照国际通行办法，股份制企业一般都要拿出利润的30%进行分红，我们的国有企业上市公司的国有股也应该拿出利润分红，最主要的方式是放到社保基金里去。现在这方面的建议已经提出了很多。当然像石油企业要拿出部分利润进行勘探、扩大生产投入，这也是合理的。朱镕基当年在建立社保基金的时候就说，这是最后的救命钱，现在社保基金相对需求来说还差很远，如果拿出国有企业利润充实到社保基金里，可以派上用场。

ZhangZhuoYuan:In accordance with international practice,Joint-stock enterprise generally want to take out 30% of the profit share out bonus,Our state-owned enterprise the state-owned shares of listed companies should also be out of the profits,The main way is to go into the social security fund.Now the advice is put forward a lot.Of course like oil companies want to take out part of the profits of exploration/Expanding production input,It is also reasonable.Zhu rongji in establishing social security fund, he said,This is the final JiuMingQian,Now the fund relative demand is poor,If you fill out of the profits of state-owned enterprises in the social security fund,You can come in handy.

　　“形势比人强，它会逼着你走” "The situation better than people,It will make you go"

　　南都：我们注意到，2012年中央经济工作会议在提出明年经济工作主要任务时，没有沿用过去的“平稳较快”发展，而是强调“持续健康”发展。这一变化传递出什么信号？应该如何看待和应对未来中国经济增速的回落？

SMW:We noticed that,Central economic work conference in 2012 in economic work next year as main task,Don't use the past"steady"The development of,But the emphasis on"Sustainable and healthy"The development of.What signals the change?Should be how to treat and deal with the future of China's economic growth fell back?

　　张卓元：我们坚决不能再走粗放经济增长方式的老路。为此，我们不能再继续追求9%甚至两位数以上的经济增速。这样的高速度今后已很难做到，即便短时期能够做到，也会带来其他严重问题。

ZhangZhuoYuan:We can't go old of extensive pattern of economic growth.For this,We can't continue to pursue the economic growth of 9% or more than two digits.It's difficult to do such a high speed in the future,Even short can do it,Also can bring other serious problems.

　　我国经济适当减速是自然的，是客观规律决定的。我估计今后十年中国经济实现7%左右的增长是可以的，当然一定要求8%以上也不现实。毕竟中国经济块头已经很大了，基数大了再要快速的发展是不太可能的，有7%左右的增速已经不错了，何况过去我们追求过高的经济增速造成比例失调和不平衡的问题太突出了，经济需要再平衡。根据国际经验，这个再平衡的经济增速需要降下来。

China's economic slowdown is appropriate,Is the objective law.I estimate that in the future ten years China's economy to achieve 7% growth is possible,Of course must be more than 8% is not reality.After all, China's economic size has been great,Big base again to rapid development is unlikely,Has the rate of growth of 7% has been good,How much in the past we pursue high economic growth caused by imbalance problem of the imbalance of and too prominent,Economic need to balance.According to the international experience,The balanced economic growth needs to come down again.

　　南都：你怎么看待资源价格改革，今年是启动这项改革的好时机吗？

SMW:What do you think of resource price reform,This year is the best time to start the reform?

　　张卓元：政府应该减少对价格特别是生产要素和资源产品价格的管制。中国粗放型增长方式之所以很难转变，重要原因是由于我国生产要素如土地、资本和一些重要资源产品价格受政府控制，长期偏低或严重偏低，从而鼓励对它们的滥用和浪费，效率很低。

ZhangZhuoYuan:The government should reduce the price especially the factors of production and resources to control the price of a product.China's extensive growth mode is difficult to change,Because our country is an important reason for factors of production such as land/Capital and some important resources product price is controlled by the government,Long-term low low or serious,So as to encourage their abuse and waste,Efficiency is very low.

　　当前，我国物价基本稳定，C P I上涨率比较低，正是推进生产要素和资源产品价格改革的好时机，希望这次不要再坐失良机，抓紧推进这一重要领域改革，从而在推动转变经济发展方式上取得实效。但要注意的是，如果调整水价、电价、天然气价格，都牵扯到老百姓的生活，所以要注意稳步推进。

The current,Our prices basically stable,C P I average is lower,It is good to push forward the reform of production factors and resources product price,Hope this don't miss the boat,To promote the reform of the important fields,Thus to achieve actual effect in promoting economic growth mode transformation.But must pay attention to it,If you adjust the price/The price/Natural gas prices,Are involved in the life of common people,So should pay attention to advance steadily.

　　南都：中央经济工作会议首次明确要提出改革总体方案、路线图、时间表。请问你对未来即将出台的这份改革新方案有何预期？

SMW:Central economic work conference clearly to reform general scheme is put forward for the first time/Road map/schedule.Are you in the future reform of the new plan is about to come what is expected?

　　张卓元：我认为改革不会成为可遇而不可求的事情，因为危机会逼着你改革。形势发展到这一步，迫于压力，就不得不改革。形势比人强，它会逼着你走。譬如，中国经济发展到现在，不得不转方式，而要转方式，就必须深化改革，别无他途。

ZhangZhuoYuan:I don't think the reform will be for you but may be meet,Because of the crisis will make you reform.The situation developed to this step,Are under pressure,You have to reform.The situation better than people,It will make you go.Such as,China's economic development up to now,Have to make a way,The way to turn,We must deepen the reform,There is no way to.

　　我认为改革突破口是政府改革，是政府职能的转换。十八大报告提出，经济体制改革的核心问题是要处理好政府和市场的关系。

I think the point is the government reform,Is the conversion of government function.The eighteenth big report,The core of the reform of economic system is to properly handle the relationship between government and market.

　　现在主要是垄断行业的利益、政府官员审批权的利益，这些都很厉害的。既得利益集团的力量很强大，若非顶层发力，则很难撼动。

Now the main is in the interests of the monopoly industries/The interests of the government officials new rights,These are very bad.Of the vested interest group is very powerful,If not the top hair,It is hard to shake.

　　比如有10项审批，取消了9项，剩下一项，然后把已经取消的审批项目打包到留下的那一项中去，那这种改革等于零啊！

Such as 10 for examination and approval,Cancel the 9,Left a,Then has the cancellation of the approval package to leave a,That this reform is equal to zero!

　　我认为改革不会成为可遇而不可求的事情，因为危机会逼着你改革。形势比人强，它会逼着你走。

I don't think the reform will be for you but may be meet,Because of the crisis will make you reform.The situation better than people,It will make you go.

　　中国社科院学部委员张卓元

Member of Chinese academy of social sciences strand ZhangZhuoYuan

　　本版采写：南都记者王卫国

This board selects:SMW WangWeiGuo journalist

　　专题统筹：南都记者王卫国

Project as a whole:SMW WangWeiGuo journalist