排名并不重要，育人才是根本

Ranking is not important,Education is the fundamental

2012年11月，湖北大学毕业生应聘东方航空武汉分公司。　CFP In November 2012,Hubei university graduates eastern airlines wuhan branch.CFP　　“大学排行榜”最近又成为“热词”。2012年岁尾，先是这边“中国校友网”评出中国大学100强，北大、清华、复旦蝉联三强，又有武书连版大学排行榜连续三年将浙大送至冠军宝座，引发社会热议。

"List of the university"Recently become"Hot word".The tail and head of the 2012,At first this"China alumni network"Judge a Chinese university 100 strong,north/tsinghua/Fudan three consecutive,And even martial book version of the list of the university three years in a row will be sent to the zhejiang university champion throne,Trigger social hot debate.

　　紧接着，1月底，教育部学位与研究生教育发展中心发布2012年学科评估结果。对全国300多所高校进行了一次学科建设的“家底彻查”，本次评估也被誉为官方版本的大学排行榜。

then,At the end of January,The ministry of education degree and postgraduate education development center issued 2012 year discipline evaluation results.To the national more than 300 universities in the construction of a subject"Resources investigate",This evaluation is also known as the official version of the list of the university.

　　几份不同版本的榜单呈现不同的结果，到底哪个版本更科学、更客观、更权威，自然引发不少的争论。而无独有偶，有关大学排行榜的质疑竟也从大洋彼岸传来，就在几天前，比尔盖茨“炮轰”美国大学“排名评级系统”，且用词激烈，我不认为学校评级的关键在于是否招收到最优秀的学生，“而应着重于该学校能否有效地对其进行教育。”

Several of the different versions of the list present different results,Exactly which version more scientific/More objective/More authority,Natural cause a lot of debate.And similarly,The university list that question from from ocean the other shore,Just a few days ago,Bill Gates"cannon"The American college of"Ranking rating system",And fierce words,I don't think the school rating of the key lies in whether to recruit the best students,"And the school truth-value can effectively carry on the education."

　　记者为此对话南开大学校长龚克。龚克强调，目前的种种排行与评估难以科学地将“育人”这个大学根本任务的状况进行量化评价，而且仍有可能导致大学追名次之“躁”气。对于大学来说，排名是“末”，育人才是“本”。

Reporter for this dialogue GongKe nankai university President.GongKe emphasize,The present various ranking and evaluation will be difficult to scientifically"education"The basic task of university in quantitative evaluation,And still can lead to university after the place"calm"gas.For university for,Ranking is"end",Education is"this".

大学排行会导致追名次之“躁”气 University rankings can lead to chase the place"calm"gas

　　记者：教育部2012年学科评估一经公布，受到了社会的高度关注。尤其是对于许多高校来说，都觉得本次评估同以往社会上的各类大学排行榜不同，能为高校的健康发展带来“正能量”。我想，这种说法传递了一种讯息，那就是，之前种种排行榜令大学感到并不舒服。是这样吗？

reporter:The ministry of education in 2012 subject evaluation once released,By the society's high attention.Especially for many university is,All feel this evaluation with previous social all kinds of different university list,For the healthy development of the universities bring"Positive energy".I want to,This statement delivered a message,That is,Before a variety of charts to university was not comfortable.Is that right?

　　龚克：要说不舒服，我首先是对本次学科评估中南开大学的评估结果感到不舒服，压力很大。因为，南开应该做得更好。所以，我们正在搜集进一步的信息，要冷静、认真地分析，争取能以此为契机，抓准问题、奋力拼进。

GongKe:Say uncomfortable,I first is the subject of assessment of nankai university evaluation results feel uncomfortable,Under a lot of pressure.because,Nankai should do better.so,We are gathering further information,To calm/Seriously analysis,To take this opportunity to strive for,Catch quasi problem/To spell into.

　　应该讲，这次“学科评估”与社会上种种大学排名有所不同。首先是以学科为对象，比起以大学为对象，更具可比性，此外，数据的采集更为郑重和可靠，依靠全国的专家进行评估也令人更加信服。但是也有不足，评估仍然难以科学地将“育人”这个大学根本任务的状况进行量化评价，而且仍然有可能导致追名次之“躁”气。

Should speak,the"Subject evaluation"And social various university rankings is different.The first is subject to the object,Rather than taking the university as the object,More comparability,In addition,Data collection is more formally and reliable,Rely on the national expert evaluation is also a more convincing.But there are also insufficient,It is still difficult to evaluate scientifically will"education"The basic task of university in quantitative evaluation,And still can lead to chase the place"calm"gas.

　　当今中国学界急需的是“静气”，不能追名逐利，而要踏踏实实地发展，解决问题，培育人才。对于大学来说，不能舍本逐末。必须要认识到排名是“末”，育人才是“本”。

Today the Chinese academic circle is urgently needed"Static gas",Not fame and fortune,And builders of development,Solve the problem,Cultivating talents.For university for,Not at the shadow and lose the substance.Must realize rankings are"end",Education is"this".

　　事实上，现在的种种排行虽各有特点，但还没能起到有力的务本导向。

In fact,Now all kinds of ranking is have different features,But haven't been able to play a powerful wu Ben guide.

排行榜在客观上就是在制造“标准” List is objectively in manufacturing"standard"

　　记者：我记得北大原校长许智宏院士曾说，大学排行榜是悬在大学校长头上的一柄利剑。社会舆论的压力，让大学很难做到对排行榜“视而不见”，但如果追着大学排行榜走，就容易迷失方向。因为大学排行榜的可怕之处，不仅仅在于评选结果，更在于制造标准，从而影响一所高校未来几年的发展方向。

reporter:I remember the pku President xu zhihong academician said,University list is suspended in the university President head a knife sword.The pressure of public opinion,Let the university is accomplished very hard to list"Turn a blind eye to",But if you go chasing the university list,It is easy to get lost.Because the university list terrible place,Is not only the selection results,More is in making standard,Thus affecting a university future development direction.

　　龚克：这说到了点子上，排行榜在客观上就是在制造“标准”，对大学产生导向的作用，我相信，目前各类大学排行榜并无误导大学之心，但是，我们必须承认，衡量大学教育质量的复杂性。

GongKe:It said to the point,List is objectively in manufacturing"standard",The function of the guidance of the university to produce,I believe that,At present all kinds of university list and no misleading in the heart of the university,but,We have to admit that,The university education quality measure of complexity.

　　搞大学排行榜是一件非常严肃的事，必须具备高度的社会责任感。一个好的排名，应该引导大学务本，实至而名归。

Make list of the university is a very serious thing,Must have high sense of social responsibility.A good ranking,Should guide the university wu Ben,Real to name and to.

　　尽管许多排行榜都在努力地改进，但真正做到科学、公正，对大学的发展起到好的引导作用，绝非易事。

Although many charts are in great efforts to improve,But the real do science/justice,For the development of the university have good guidance function,Is no easy task.

　　这里有两个层次的问题，首先是大学排名应该看什么？显然应该是看大学的教育质量，但是，现有的大学排名是否做到了较好地体现大学的教育质量？接下来的问题是，教育质量应该怎么看？大学的根本任务是“立德树人”，说到这儿，大学排行榜根本性的矛盾就体现出来了，目前，如何评价“立德树人”，尚没有公认的科学的量化方法。

There are two levels of problem,The first is university rankings should see?Obviously should be see university education quality,but,The existing university rankings is done better reflect the quality of university education?The next question is,Education quality should be how to see?The basic task of the university is"Khalid ents",Said here,University list fundamental contradiction will show up,At present,How to evaluate"Khalid ents",There is no accepted scientific quantitative method.

形形色色的排行榜，反映出价值观的多元化 All kinds of charts,Reflect the diversity of values

　　记者：现在社会上有形形色色的大学排行榜，不但有对大学综合实力的评价，还出现了“造福排行榜”、“校友杰出排行榜”等等。我们看到，公众对其质疑之声也始终存在，有人质疑其“牟利”之心，有人质疑其评选标准之公正与否，有人质疑其数据是否科学、客观。您如何看待这种现象？大学、公众又应该以怎样的心态和视角来对待这些排行榜？

reporter:Now in the society with all the list of university,Not only have to college comprehensive strength evaluation,Also appeared"Benefit list"/"Outstanding alumni list"etc.We see,The sound of the question is always there,Some had questioned the"profit"heart,Some had questioned the selection standard of justice or not,Some question whether the data of science/objective.How do you think of this phenomenon?university/The public and should use what kind of point of view and perspectives to treat these charts?

　　龚克：“形形色色”这个词用得贴切，当前的大学排行榜真的是五花八门，这反映出当下价值观的多元化。从言论自由的角度，可以允许多种排行榜的出现。但从社会责任的角度看，就应该关注各种排行榜对大学、大学生以及公众所产生的导向是否正确。

GongKe:"mixed"The word rightness,The current university list really be multifarious,This reflects the diversity of the values.From the point of view of free speech,Allows the emergence of a variety of charts.But from the perspective of social responsibility,You should pay attention to all kinds of top university/College students and the public have guide is correct.

　　必须看到，公众对于大学排行榜是需要的。老百姓要知道哪些大学办得好、好在哪。

Must see,The public for university list is needed.People want to know what university do well/Where is the good.

　　现在每年大约1000万人要考大学，加上他们的亲朋好友、中学教师等，多达几千万人。还有已经毕业的校友，他们也希望了解自己的母校发展如何，这部分的人群是上亿的数量。同时，在全球化的背景下，公众不仅关心本国的大学排名，也关注全球大学的排行，这就是近年来有好几种世界大学排行榜出现的原因。

Now each year about 10 million people to enter college,With their relatives and friends/[releaser] cw718acher, etc,As many as tens of millions of people.There are already graduate alumni,They also want to know his Alma mater development,This part of the population is the number of hundreds of millions.At the same time,Under the background of globalization,Public concerns not only their own university rankings,Also pay attention to the global university rankings,This is in recent years, there are several kinds of world top university the cause of the event.

　　当下，在难以做到对大学教育质量给予科学量化的评价又无法禁绝排行榜的情况下，如何发挥大学排行榜的积极作用，并尽量减小其可能造成的误导？

the,In the hard on college education quality give scientific quantitative evaluation and can't list from the case,How to play the positive role of university list,And try to reduce its may cause misleading?

　　我想，首先，应提倡各个排行榜把基础数据和统计模型公开，接受监督和评论；其次，要允许多样化的排行榜差异化发展，为公众提供多视角的比较；再次，还应该鼓励对于各种排行榜的评论，要让公众明确地知道大学排行榜提供的信息的不全面和不精确，从而做到对其不盲从。真理越辩越明，正确的导向需要在比较鉴别中真正发挥作用。

I want to,First of all,Should promote each list the basic data and statistical model open,Accept the supervision and review;secondly,To allow the diversity of different development list,To provide public more comparative perspective;again,Should also encourage the list for all kinds of comments,To make the public clearly know university list to the information provided is not comprehensive and accurate,Thus do not blindly follow the.The greater the truth the Ming contend,The correct orientation in comparison to identify the real play a role.

增强战略定力是大学应有的自觉 Strengthen strategic concentration is university should consciously

　　记者：我们看到，日前，比尔盖茨也对美国的大学排行榜做出批评，认为当下的美国大学排行榜在对学院进行排名时，没有任何反馈机制。而且，盖茨认为学校评级标准的关键不仅仅在于是否能招收到最优秀的学生，而应该着重看学校是否对学生进行了有效的教育。这就涉及一个重要问题，大学排行榜究竟该如何制定评价标准？

reporter:We see,a,Bill Gates also for American university list to criticize,Think of the American university on top of the rankings,Without any feedback mechanism.and,Gates think the school rating standard key is not only if you can recruit to the most outstanding students,But should focus on to see whether the school students effective education.This involves an important problem,Top university how make evaluation standard?

　　龚克：对于这个问题，要将主观愿望和客观效果统一起来看。比如，在主观上排行榜可能只是想把各校论文数量“客观地”排列出来告诉人们，但客观上却往往总是起到促使大学追求数量的作用。所以，排行榜承载的功能并不在于主观愿望，而更在于客观效果。因此，社会效果和责任是排行榜作者应有的文化自觉。同样，增强战略定力、不为一时一种之名次所左右，也是大学应有的自觉。

GongKe:For this problem,Will the subjective wishes and objective effect unified up to see.Such as,In the list of the subjective may just want to get the overall number of papers"objectively"Arrangement out tell people,But there are often always plays the role of the university to the pursuit of quantity.so,List the function of the bearing is not subjective desire,And more is the objective effect.so,Social effect and responsibility is the top right cultural consciousness.The same,Enhance strategic concentration/Not a moment of a place or so,The university also should consciously.

　　大学和学科的排名都是“末”而不是“本”。好的大学，一定是在人才培养上形成了好的传统、好的机制、好的条件、好的文化氛围、好的治理结构和大学制度等等，他们没有一个是将排名念念在兹的，没有一个是对“一流”念念在兹的。与其瞄准排名，不如瞄准问题，那样才真能向“一流”迫近，否则恐怕要渐行渐远。

University rankings and disciplines are"end"not"this".Good university,Must be in cultivating formed the good tradition/Good mechanism/Good conditions/Good cultural atmosphere/Good governance structure and university system and so on,They have no one is rated in pronouncing this,No one is on"first-class"In pronouncing this.Instead of aiming in,Aiming at problems as,That really be able to"first-class"impending,Otherwise I'm afraid to further away from it.

　　现代大学已有几百年，而有影响的排行榜只有几十年，我还没有看到“最科学、最公正、最有价值”的“国际经验”。但我相信，要想科学公正，就要务大学之本，“本立而道生”，这个“本”是“立德树人”。离开这个“本”，就谈不上科学、公正和价值。（记者 赵婀娜）

The modern university for hundreds of years,And influential list with only a few more decades,I have not seen"The most scientific/The justice/Most valuable"of"International experience".But I believe that,If you want to science fair,The university is priority,"This set and the tao gave birth to",this"this"is"Khalid ents".Leave this"this",There would be no science/Justice and value.(Reporter zhao graceful)