据中国之声《新闻纵横》报道，《新闻纵横》节目昨天报道了苏州卫生部门要求药商按销售额的5%到20%向医院返利，甚至当地的慈善基金会都成了药商向医院交钱的中介的情况。

According to the sound of China[News aspect]reports,[News aspect]Show yesterday reported suzhou department of health requirements druggist according to 5% of sales amount to 20% rebate to the hospital,Even the local charity foundation has become a druggist to hospital pay intermediary situation.

　　报道播出之后，苏州卫生部门对此进行了回应，表示这个返利将用于特困人群、三无人员的救助，并用来发展医疗事业。

After the broadcast reports,Suzhou health department carries out a response,Says the rebate will be used for people in dire straits/3 without the personnel of the rescue,And to the development of medical career.

　　苏州市吴江区选择了慈善基金会做中介，药商们按照规定的比例把钱汇到基金会的公开捐款账号上，吴江区卫生局副局长李根华解释，最初也考虑把钱交到卫生部门，最终选择了慈善基金会，是因为它隶属于民政部门，这样的设计是希望这笔钱用的更透明更规范。

Suzhou wujiang area chose charitable foundation do intermediary,The druggist in accordance with the provisions of the proportion of money to fund public donations on account,Wujiang district health bureau deputy director LiGenHua interpretation,Initially consider money make health department,The final choice of the charitable foundation,Because it belongs to civil affairs departments,This design is hope the money more transparent more standardized.

　　李根华：因为每个县的慈善总会都有个章程，这笔钱进去，全部按照章程使用，而且要严格接受审计，到目前为止，确实有1000多万块钱进去了，我们一分钱都没动过。

LiGenHua:Because each county charity federation has a articles of association,The money in,All use in accordance with the articles of association,And should strictly accept audit,So far,Do have more than 1000 dollars in,We haven't moved a penny.

　　即便慈善基金会对这笔钱不收管理费，即便双方在今年3月份还签了协议，但这种方式吴江区也在斟酌。至于已经躺在账号里的1000多万到底该怎么用，目前还没有明确的说法。

Even charitable foundation for the money not fee,Even if both sides in this year march also signed the agreement,But this way in wujiang area also consider.As for the already lying on the account of more than 1000 exactly how to use,There is no clear statement.

　　李根华：接下来就要研究这笔钱怎么样用到最恰当的地方去，要用到医疗卫生事业上去，但是哪些医疗卫生事业可以用哪些不能用还要研究，因此到目前为止，一分钱都不动。

LiGenHua:Then research the money how to use the most appropriate place to go,To use the medical and health services up,But what are the medical and health services can be used to study what should not be used,So so far,A penny are not moving.

　　在苏州，卫生部门要求药商返利，这是普遍现象，只不过选择的中介各有差异。吴江选择的是慈善机构，相城区又选择了医药公司，在李根华看来，医药公司是私企，由它来衔接卫生部门和药品供应商完成返利是否合适也值得商榷。

In suzhou,Department of health requirements druggist rebate,This is a common phenomenon,Just choose intermediary each have differences.Wujiang choice is charity,Phase city and choose the pharmaceutical companies,In LiGenHua seems,Pharmaceutical company is a private enterprise,By it to join the health department and drug suppliers complete rebate is appropriate also worthy of.

　　采访过程中，医院的工作人员曾向记者透露，之所以卫生部门会向药商伸手要钱，是因为财政拨款不够，吴江区卫生局副局长李根华否认了这一说法。

interview,The hospital staff had revealed to reporters,The department of health to the druggist out his hand to money,Because financial appropriation is not enough,Wujiang district health bureau deputy director LiGenHua denied the claim.

　　李根华：这笔款项和政府正常的医疗机构的拨款没有关系。

LiGenHua:The funds and government normal medical institutions have no relation to the funds.

　　李根华进一步解释，吴江有医院将试点全面取消药品15%的加成，药品的中标价格就是卖给患者的零售价格，医院在这一块儿将没有利润。医院减少的这部分收入谁来补，已经有了明确方案。

LiGenHua further explanation,Wu jiang has a hospital will pilot abolish all drug 15% bonus,The drug price is sold to the retail price of patients,The hospital in this together will not profit.This part of the hospital to reduce income who will fill,Have a clear plan.

　　李根华：70%通过医疗服务价格的结构调整来弥补，这里面有升有降，具体就是劳务的价格提升，检查的费用的下降，20%是通过政府的拨款，10%是通过医院自己的消化处理这个事情。

LiGenHua:70% through the price of medical service structure adjustment to make up for,It can rise and fall,Concrete is services price increase,Check the cost of the decline,20% is through the government's appropriation,10% is through the hospital his digestion deal with this thing.

　　医院要负担的10%是否包括从药商那里收来的费用，李根华说，这10%通过医院用好试剂、耗材，理顺管理流程等方式实现，和药商无关。苏州市卫生局新闻发言人盛乐也认为，收钱和财政投入没有直接关系。

The hospital to 10% of the burden is collected from the druggist including the cost,LiGenHua said,This 10% through the hospital with good reagent/consumables,Make management process, etc. To realize,And druggist has nothing to do.Suzhou city health bureau spokesman shengle also think,Money and financial investment have no direct relation.

　　记者：是因为财政拨款不够吗，所以医院要向药商要钱？

reporter:Because financial appropriation enough?,So the hospital to the druggist want money?

　　盛乐：我认为并不是很相关，财政的投入是补偿渠道中的一条，这个涉及药品采购供应的体系，不是完全对等的事情。

shengle:I think not very relevant,Financial investment is one of the compensation channels,This involves drug purchasing and supply system,Not completely matchable things.

　　有药商向记者反映，苏州的卫生部门要求药商返利，如果不愿意出这笔钱，可能会被医院停药。吴江区卫生局副局长李根华以政府招标类比，在江苏基本药品目录里有599种药，而医院对药品选择的余地很大，用不用某种药可以理解成市场行为。

A druggist reflect to the reporter,Suzhou health department requirements druggist rebate,If you are not willing to pay,May be the hospital drug withdrawal.Wujiang district health bureau deputy director LiGenHua government tender analogy,In jiangsu basic drug catalogue 599 kind of medicine,The hospital drug of choice for room is very big,Use some medicine can understand into market behavior.

　　李根华：一个药品可以有两种规格，有个药是0.25的，有的是0.5的，有的是口服的，有的是水针剂有的是粉针剂，理论上我招标600种药品，最多江苏招标就是1800种，事实上最后招下来六千到七千种药品。大一点的医院大概有600种药品，600种药可以在6000种里随意挑。

LiGenHua:A drug can have two kinds of specifications,There is a medicine is 0.25,Have a plenty of 0.5,Have a plenty of the oral,Have a plenty of ShuiZhenJi have a plenty of powder injection,I bid in 600 kinds of drugs,The most tender is 1800 kinds of jiangsu province,In fact the last called down six thousand to seven thousand kinds of drugs.Bigger hospital about 600 kinds of drugs,600 kind of medicine can be in 6000 at the pick.

　　至于苏州卫生部门向药商要返点的依据，不管是在吴江区采访，还是到苏州市卫生局，他们都拿江苏省政府办公厅的一份文件说话。今年9月份，《江苏省县级公立医院综合改革试点实施意见》下发，其中提到“建立政府、部门与药品生产、流通企业谈判机制，合理压缩药品生产流通环节利润，用于发展医疗事业”。在苏州市卫生局新闻发言人盛乐看来，上级部门画了个框，他们只不过是在框架内做些探索。

As for suzhou department of health to the druggist to return point basis,Whether in wujiang area interview,Or to suzhou city health bureau,They all took office in jiangsu province government a file to speak.In September this year,[At or above the county level in jiangsu province public hospital comprehensive reform pilot implementation opinions]issued,The mentioned"Set up a government/Department and drug production/Circulation enterprise negotiation mechanism,Reasonable compression medicine production and circulation link profit,For the development of medical career".In suzhou city health bureau spokesman shengle looks,The superior department draw a frame,They are just in the framework to do some exploration.

　　盛乐：根据省政府办公厅上级文件的规定，同时国家和省和市都要求积极探索医药分开的多种药效途径，根据这两个精神苏州的有关地区，也在积极探索由我们的政府和部门和药品的供货企业，生产和流通环节的供应商和他们谈判，合理压缩特别是流通环节的一些利润。我们认为大方向不错，又符合政策框架，我们又有相关的条件，比如各个县级市他的体量、经济、老百姓的需求量都达到一定的规模，有这个相关的条件了，那么通过试点的方式来尝尝鲜。

shengle:According to the general office of the provincial government at a higher level of the provisions of the documents,At the same time in the country and province and city are required to actively explore medicine separate various efficacy way,According to the two spirit about suzhou area,Also in the active exploration by our government and departments and drug supply enterprise,Production and circulation link suppliers and their negotiations,Reasonable compression especially circulation link some profit.We believe that a good way,And conform to the policy framework,We have related conditions,Such as each county-level cities of his mass/economic/Common people's demand is to achieve a certain scale,Have the relevant conditions,Then through the pilot way to feel adventurous.

　　苏州市卫生部门的思路一致，药商一方有可压缩的利润空间，把一部分利润从药商处收回，用到更需要的地方去。这笔款项怎么用？苏州卫生局新闻发言人盛乐用几个关键词加以概括。

Suzhou city department of health in the train of thought,Druggist party has compressible profit space,The profits from the druggist place back,Use the place where it is more needed.How to use this money?Suzhou health bureau spokesman shengle with several key words to generalize.

　　盛乐：第一个是统筹，由政府和部门跟企业进行谈判，最后这些资金统筹安排，第二，进入一个专门的账户专款专用，第三，它应用的方面，特困人群的救助，还有三无人员，这是惠民生的，还有一些促进医药卫生事业发展的。

shengle:The first is to plan as a whole,By the government and departments negotiate with enterprise,Finally the money overall arrangement,The second,Into a special account special fund is special,The third,It application aspects,The salvage in dire straits,There are 3 without the personnel,This is born of we,There are some to promote the development of medical and health services.

　　北京大学公共卫生学院教授周子君认为，由于药品的价格形成机制不完善，药商的超额利润的确需要规范。药商和政府、医院应该形成一种谈判机制。

Beijing university professor with the school of public health ZhouZiJun think,Due to the drug price formation mechanism is not perfect,The druggist excess profit really need specification.Druggist and government/The hospital should form a negotiation mechanism.

　　周子君：药品招标采购，政府搭一个平台，大家都来报，形成一个价格，但是这个价格在一些地方还是有水分的。现在以前药品水分大的时候会给医生一些回扣，产生各种各样的问题，既然大家都知道中间流通环节有水分的话，那政府有责任采取措施把水分压低，就是双方的谈判。

ZhouZiJun:Drug purchase,The government take a platform,Everyone come to report,To form a price,But the price in some places there are still water.Now before the drug moisture will give the doctor some rebate,Produce various kinds of problems,Since everybody knows there is water circulation among words,The government has a responsibility to take measures to water down,Is the negotiations between the two sides.

　　南京大学教授邱鹭风却有不同的观点，药商把销售额上交，其实就是暗扣变明扣。政府只能作为监督协调者，而不应以行政命令的方式要求药企返点。同时，他认为，对于取消药品加成给医院带来的损失，地方政府应该加大财政投入。

Nanjing university professor QiuLuFeng but have a different point of view,The druggist in sales,In fact is dark buckle warming button.The government only as supervision and coordinator,And should not be in the way of administrative orders for medicine enterprises return point.At the same time,He thinks,To cancel the drug addition to the loss of the hospital,The local government should increase financial investment.

　　邱鹭风：你用政府的名义去做这种事情，公司法人是合法的法人，他的财产受法律保护的，你只能加强你的财政投入，只能是这样。

QiuLuFeng:You use the name of the government to do such a thing,The company legal person is legitimate legal person,His property protected by law,You can strengthen your financial investment,Have to be like this.

　　采访过程中，苏州卫生部门总用“尝鲜、探索”来评价他们要求药商返利的行为，并明确表态，明年这一做法还将继续。放在医改的大背景下，该怎么看待苏州这所谓的探索，这笔钱究竟应该通过什么渠道收更合情合理合法，收来的钱又该怎么用？解答这些问题，恐怕还需要时间与实践的检验。(记者刘黎 吴喆华）

interview,Suzhou department of health in general"freshness/explore"To evaluate their requirements druggist rebate behavior,And clearly declare,The next year will continue to practice.In the background of reform,How to look at suzhou this so-called explore,The money is actually should through what channels the more reasonable legal,To collect the money and how to use?Solve these problems,I'm afraid I still need time and the test of practice.(Reporter LiuLi 吴喆 China)