二、何谓“拒绝谈判”？ two、What is“Refused to negotiate”？

　　张文强：谈判过程中充满了博弈的色彩，充满了手段、艺术或者各方面的技巧，看来要学的东西确实很多。

ZhangWenJiang：The negotiation process with the colour of the game，Filled with means、Art or all aspects of skills，It seems to learn things really many。

　　今天李老师抛出一个非常重要的观点，他说要拒绝谈判，就是您经历了很多谈判的过程，研究了很多谈判之后，最后得出一个结论说要不谈判了，这有点像最高境界，武术最高境界就是无招胜有招，您是不是也是这个感觉，就是我谈判到一定程度就干脆不谈了。

Today miss li to throw out a very important point of view，He said that he would refuse to negotiate，Is your experience a lot of negotiation process，Studied a lot of negotiations，Finally concluded or negotiations，It is a little like a highest level，Martial arts highest state is assume formlessness，Are you also is this feeling，Is I negotiations to a certain degree just don't talked about。

　　李力刚：因为我的出发点是什么，刚才刘总也谈到了，谈判很累，是一个累的活，让我们纠结、痛苦，让我们难受，有时候看别人谈得好的时候我们又羡慕、嫉妒、恨，怎么办呢？其实像马云一样说得一样，我要让天下没有难做的生意，毕竟我们是专门琢磨这一块的，他们可能研究，但是我希望我们以后能不能想出一个办法让谈判更简单，甚至不需要谈判是不是可以。

LiLiGang：Because my starting point is what，Just liu2 zong3 also talked about，Talks very tired，Is a tired of live，Let us ravel、pain，Let us uncomfortable，Sometimes look at the others talk about good and we envy、envy、hate，How to do？In fact as well as ma as，I want to let the world does not have difficult to do business，After all, we are specialized ponder this one，They may study，But I hope we later can come up with a way to get more simple negotiations，Don't even need negotiation if we can。

　　张文强：不需要谈判就能把谈判该办的事搞定？

ZhangWenJiang：Don't need negotiation can the negotiations the business done？

　　李力刚：都搞定。

LiLiGang：All set。

　　张文强：这句话逻辑是有问题的，就是不需要谈判就能把需要谈判的事给搞定，刘老师怎么理解这个事，这个事情有可能吗？

ZhangWenJiang：This sentence logic is a problem，Just don't need negotiation can take to negotiate to fix，Teacher liu how to understand this matter，This thing is that possible？

　　刘博：太有可能了，我自己做过一个项目。

LiuBo：So might the，I do have a project。

　　张文强：就是不谈判就把需要谈判的事给搞定了？

ZhangWenJiang：Is not the negotiations need to fix the negotiations？

　　刘博：对。

LiuBo：to。

　　李力刚：那我们先休息一下。

LiLiGang：Then we take a rest。

　　刘博：我本来是想后面讲。

LiuBo：I am want to speak behind。

　　张文强：没关系，咱们可以。

ZhangWenJiang：it doesn't matter，We can。

　　刘博：实际上我理解所谓拒绝谈判可能有几层意思，第一层意思讲的是谈判的一种境界，境界叫不战而屈人之兵。

LiuBo：Actually I understand the so-called refused to negotiate may have several layers of meaning，The first layer meaning is about a state of negotiations，State called to defeat the enemy without combat。

　　张文强：不战而屈人之兵，上战伐谋。

ZhangWenJiang：To defeat the enemy without combat，War on cutting plans。

　　刘博：我跟您讲的不太一样，我是讲战略课的，我的PPT上有4句话叫做“善胜者不争，善争者不战，善战者不败，善败者不乱”。

LiuBo：I speak with you is not the same as in，I am speaking strategy class，My PPT has 4 words is called“Good does the winner，Good person not to fight against，Fit person unbeaten，Good loser not disorderly”。

　　张文强：这4句话很经典。

ZhangWenJiang：These four words very classic。

　　刘博：这4句话实际上来自于我们国家一个非常经典的文献，但是这个经典。

LiuBo：These four words actually from our country a very classic literature，But the classical。

　　张文强：《兵说》吗？

ZhangWenJiang：《Soldier said》?？

　　刘博：类似，但是很多人没有念过，为什么呢？因为这4句话来自《烂柯经》，《烂柯经》几百字，我觉得它的信息量或者指导意义可能跟佛家的《心经》有一拼，这4句话可以去琢磨，什么叫“善胜者不争，善争者不战”，就是我们在讲的。

LiuBo：similar，But many people never read，why？Because the four words come from《Rotten ko the》，《Rotten ko the》Hundreds of words，I think it information or guiding significance of buddhist may follow《Theheart sutra》A spell，These four words can go to ponder，What is“Good does the winner，Good person not to fight against”，Is what we are talking about。

　　张文强：不战而屈人之兵。

ZhangWenJiang：To defeat the enemy without combat。

　　刘博：讲一个例子，这是一个真实的，我自己做过的，我当时做销售的时候，那时候还年轻。

LiuBo：Speak an example，This is a true，I myself did，I was doing sales，At that time still young。

　　张文强：现在也不老。

ZhangWenJiang：NOw also not old。

　　刘博：大概在20年前的时候，我在一间公司里做销售计算机设备，当时我有一个中科院的客户，我跟这个客户的第一个单子是经过了很复杂的鏖战拿下来的，拿下来之后，我做销售的风格就是每做一个case，这个客户都一定会是我特别好的朋友，大家变成知心朋友。

LiuBo：About 20 years ago when the，I am in a company in computer equipment sales，I had a Chinese academy of sciences customers，I tell the customer the first list was a very complicated engage in fierce battle take down，Off after，I do sales style is that every do a case，The customer will is my very good friend，You become bosom friends。

　　张文强：这个水平很高了。

ZhangWenJiang：This level high。

　　刘博：大家会互相信任，对于我来说，我对客户首先要非常尊重，尤其是像科学院的项目，他们真的是老大师级，所以我给予他们比别人更多的尊重，因此我获得了比别人更多的反过来的尊重，所以很有意思的一件事，当前面这个项目签下来之后，我去拜访这个老师，当时是一个某中心的主任，我说张老师谢谢你，这么长时间我们终于把这个事做完了，我说后边有什么事情您需要我，我们还可以继续帮忙。这个老师忽然间想起一件事说有件事，别走，我也莫名其妙，然后他就跑到自己电脑前，那个时候还是很破的那种，然后打开电脑说，别着急，我看看，他说今年我手里还有80万美元，你来给我想想办法。

LiuBo：People will trust each other，For me，I to the customer first have to be very respect，Especially like academy of sciences project，They are really old master，So I give them more respect than others，So I achieved more than most of the others respect in turn，So a very interesting thing，The current level of this project after sign the down，I went to visit the teacher，At that time is a certain director of the center，I said thank you teacher zhang，Such a long time we finally put the things were done，I said back something you need me，We also can continue to help。The teacher suddenly remembered something said one thing，Don't walk，I also puzzling，Then he ran to his front of the computer，That time is still very broken that，Then open the computer said，Don't try so hard，I see，He said this year I hand still has $800000，You give me do something。

　　李力刚：他要成就你。

LiLiGang：He will be done to you。

　　刘博：这个事情很有意思在哪呢？

LiuBo：This matter is very interesting？

　　张文强：其实这80万应该经过谈判才有可能得到这个单子。

ZhangWenJiang：In fact, this 800000 should be after negotiation can be get the list。

　　刘博：没错，当时我们在北京有一个写字楼叫做“新世纪写字楼”，那个时候IT的N多的著名企业都在里头，包括当时全球第二的BC，包括Sun Micro、Informix、富士通、微软全部在里头，所以那个时候楼上经常做销售的人，大case基本大家都知道，因为大家互相都了解，结果当我拿下这个单子的时候，他们都很吃惊说，为什么我们连一点动静都没听到。

LiuBo：That's right，When we have a office building in Beijing called“The new century office”，At that time IT N many famous enterprises are in IT，The second includes the BC，Including Sun Micro、Informix、Fujitsu、Microsoft all in it，So at that time often upstairs to sales people，Big case basic everyone knows，Because we understand each other，Results when I scored when the list，They are all very surprised said，Why do we even a little action didn't hear。

　　张文强：这么大的一个标的的案子就拿下了，而且没有谈判。

ZhangWenJiang：Such a big mark won the case，And no negotiations。

　　刘博：就是客户完全相信，而且我特别把想把这个case讲给今天做销售的人听，这个case从头到尾我只跟这个老师吃过一顿饭，就是签约的那天。

LiuBo：Is the customer fully believe，And I want to send this special case to speak today to sales people to listen to，This case from the beginning to the end I only with the teacher eating a meal，Is the day of signing。

　　张文强：所以这个是您说的最高境界了。

ZhangWenJiang：So this is what you said was the highest。

　　李力刚：所以宗教的发展史都是高人，比如耶稣、基督、释迦牟尼也好，他们到底高明在什么地方呢？他不跟任何人谈判，比如释迦牟尼的父亲其实是印度一个小国的国王，他的父亲肯定很辛苦地管理国家，要跟大臣谈这个谈那个，有一天释迦牟尼发现结完婚，生完孩子以后，他又出去了，后来他发现他苦修，后来又乐修，修了好长时间以后发现这个事情，原来我有一种办法，既让自己很快乐，也让别人很快乐，他后来不跟任何人谈判建立了一个庞大帝国。

LiLiGang：So the history of religion is superior，Such as Jesus、Christ、Sakyamuni or，They really clever in what place？He did not tell anyone negotiations，Such as sakyamuni's father is actually India a small country king，His father must be very hard to manage state，Want to talk about this minister about that，One day JieWanHun Buddha found，After giving birth，He went out again，Later he found his penance，Then joy repair，Fix for a long time later found the things，Originally I there is a way，Both let oneself very happy，Also let the other people happy，He later don't tell anyone negotiations established a vast empire。

　　刘博：所以有个结论，现在全世界大家都在谈Business model，谈业务模式，最成功的业务模式就是宗教。

LiuBo：So a conclusion，NOw the world everyone talking about Business model，Talk about business model，The most successful business model is religious。

　　李力刚：对，他们说像佛教是全球最大的房地产企业，占的地皮是全世界最好的什么山顶。

LiLiGang：to，They say that be like Buddhism is the world's largest real estate enterprise，The land is of the best in the world what the top of the mountain。

　　刘博：而且都是白给。

LiuBo：And white give。

　　李力刚：白给，没有年限，没有什么期限，全部白给，而且我们去了是我们掏给里边钱，不是他给你钱，这个模式是越做越好，如果不是因为战争，肯定越做越好，越做越大，它也是人建立的，而且动不动延续了2、3千年，不会灭，不参与轮回的惩罚。

LiLiGang：White to，NO fixed number of year，NO time limit，All white to，And we went to the is our money to cut inside，Is not he gave you the money，This mode is more do well，If it were not for war，Sure more do well，Bigger and bigger，It is also a man，And often lasted 2、In 3000,，Won't destroy，Don't participate in samsara punishment。

　　张文强：但是这个咱们哪说哪了。

ZhangWenJiang：But the let's which said which。

　　刘博：讲到宗教和佛教，实际上拒绝谈判的核心在于征服对方的心。

LiuBo：Talked about religion and Buddhism，Actually refused to negotiate is the core of conquering each other's heart。

　　张文强：所以我觉得您提到的拒绝谈判最高境界就在于抓住人心。不过刘老师好像对拒绝谈判还有一些其他的想法，您先提。

ZhangWenJiang：So I think you mentioned refused to negotiate highest state is catch people。But as to liu refused to negotiate and some other thoughts，You first ask。

　　刘博：专家在这，我在这班门弄斧，其实如果从拒绝谈判的角度来说有另外几个不同的解释，一个是在谈判具体到每一个case，有些地方实际上可以不谈，比如说谈判双方非常强势。

LiuBo：Experts in this，I am in this teach fish to swim，In fact, if from refused to negotiate point of view have other several different explanation，One is in negotiations specific to each case，Some places can actually not to talk，For example the negotiations both sides is very strong。

　　张文强：他不对等，没法谈。

ZhangWenJiang：He was not, etc，Couldn't talk about。

　　刘博：举一个简单的例子，刚才你介绍了，我当初是在微软做，我在1999年—2001年我是微软中国副总经理，我负责Windows在PC、在笔记本上面预装，所以我们当时最大的客户是李老师的老家。

LiuBo：For a simple example，Just now you introduced，I had in Microsoft do，I in 1999-2001 I am Microsoft China deputy general manager，I am responsible for Windows in the PC、Pre-installed in your notebook，So we were the largest customer is miss li's home。

　　李力刚：联想。

LiLiGang：association。

　　刘博：所以我跟柳传志，杨元庆先生都很熟，谈这个是为什么？那个时候你会发现全中国人民都在说Windows太贵了，微软说中国人盗版，中国人说你太贵了，我买不起，结果微软降价了吗？没有，因为它足够强势，我如果在谈判之中足够强势的时候，对不起，不用谈，很干脆。

LiuBo：So I told liu，Mr. Pursue is familiar，Talk about this is why？At that time you will find that all the Chinese people are saying that Windows is too expensive，Microsoft says Chinese piracy，The Chinese say you are too expensive，I can't afford to buy，Results Microsoft price cut？no，Because it is strong enough，If I in negotiations to be strong enough time，I'm sorry，Don't talk about，Very simply。

　　李力刚：换成谈判理论，就是当我弱他强，我强他弱的时候不是谈判，谈判永远讲的不是先谈，而是先要求，要求对命令。

LiLiGang：Into negotiation theory，Is when I am weak, he is strong，I am strong when he weak not negotiations，Negotiations always speak not to talk about，But first requirements，Required to command。

　　刘博：大家都知道，实际所谓谈判就是一个相互妥协的整体过程，如果我认为我完全没有妥协的必要，大家还谈什么呢。

LiuBo：Everyone knows that，The actual so-called negotiation is a mutual compromise the whole process，If I think I have no compromise is necessary，We also talk about what。

　　李力刚：谢谢，句号。

LiLiGang：thank you，period。

　　刘博：没有错。

LiuBo：NOt wrong。

　　张文强：你买不买，你只能选择是交现金还是用支票的问题。

ZhangWenJiang：You buy，You can only choice is to pay cash or by cheque problem。

　　李力刚：其实连选择的余地都没有，所以小布什对萨达姆说了一句话，我们的结果只有一个，就是你必须下台。

LiLiGang：In fact connect option all have no，So little bush to saddam hussein said a words，Our results only one，Is that you have to step down。

　　刘博：句号，没有了。当一方充分强势的时候是不需要谈的，倒过来如果你认为对方充分强势的时候你也不要谈。

LiuBo：period，no。When a party fully strong time is not need to talk about，The other way around if you think the other full of strong when you don't talk about。

　　张文强：以卵击石。

ZhangWenJiang：Kick against the pricks。

　　李力刚：所以很多企业在不断激励自己的时候，都要把自己的实力积累的足够大，然后自己不够大的时候还要联盟，目的就是为了不参与谈判，托拉斯、资本主义的垄断都是这个道理。

LiLiGang：So a lot of enterprises in the continuously encourage yourself，All want to put their strength accumulated enough，And then he is not big enough even when alliance，Purpose is in order not to participate in negotiations，trust、The monopoly capitalism is the truth。

　　张文强：在足够强大的时候可以选择不用谈判来达到谈判应该达到的结果。您说还有一个第三情况是什么？

ZhangWenJiang：In the strong enough time can choose not negotiations to achieve negotiations should be achieved result。You said there is a third situation is what？

　　刘博：第三种情况就是实际上在任何一个商业的项目里都会有一些边界。举个最简单的例子，政府的政策边界，如果到了那个时候，曾经发生过这样的状况，比如外企对中国的政策并不了解，然后会要求中国的客户去做什么，一、二、三、四、五，但是中方认为已触及到中国的政策底线的时候，只有一句话：No。

LiuBo：The third kind of circumstance is in fact in any commercial project will have some boundary。For the most simple example，The policy of the government boundary，If by that time，Happened this situation，Such as foreign companies to China's policies do not understand，Then will ask Chinese customers to do??????，a、two、three、four、five，But the Chinese think that has access to China's policies of the bottom line，Only a word：NO。

　　李力刚：就像我们中国的企业到了外国必须建立工会是一样的，必须得遵守他们的底线。

LiLiGang：Just as we Chinese enterprises must be established to foreign trade union is the same，Must abide by their bottom line。

　　刘博：对于必须要做的事情就不要谈判。

LiuBo：To have to do don't negotiations。

　　李力刚：海尔要去美国，加班就不现实。

LiLiGang：Haier will go to the United States，Work overtime is not reality。

　　张文强：所以您的意思是要把谈判分成可以谈和不可以谈的，因为您刚才提到的一个是没有必要谈，这属于是不用谈的；还有一部分是有范围有底线的也没有必要谈。

ZhangWenJiang：So you mean to put into negotiations can talk about and not to talk about，Because you just mentioned a is not necessary to talk about，This belongs to is not talk about；And there is a part of the range of the bottom line, and there is no need to talk about。

　　李力刚：另外我要强调一点，我觉得谈判里边无论我强还是我弱，谈判里边都是讲先要求的，先不谈的。

LiLiGang：In addition, I want to emphasize a little，I think negotiations inside whatever I strong or weak I，There are negotiations about the first requirement，First not talk about。

　　刘博：一定是要有先提需求。

LiuBo：Must be to have to mention demand。

　　李力刚：你把你的笔给我用一下。

LiLiGang：You put your pen to give it to me。

　　张文强：这是要求。

ZhangWenJiang：This is the requirement。

　　李力刚：对呀，其实当我要求的时候，你会不由的做一个动作配合我。

LiLiGang：yeah，Actually when I request it，You will have to do an action with me。

　　张文强：我就直接找笔。

ZhangWenJiang：I will direct to seek a pen。

　　李力刚：所以无论我强还是我弱，这二年我面临家电厂商总是请我去讲应对中国著名的家电卖场，因为没法谈判，产生很多现象，很多做业务的人不敢对卖场提要求，但是卖场对家电厂商发送的短信真是很吓人，就是明天几点几点我们在几楼开一个选位置的会议，请你们各大厂商的一把手、二把手必须九点钟到几楼，不允许请假，如果不来的人后果自负，句号。

LiLiGang：So whatever I strong or weak I，The two years I faced electrical home appliances manufacturers always asked me to speak to the famous Chinese home appliance sells，Because can't negotiations，Create many phenomena，A lot of people don't dare to do business to sell asked，But markets for electrical home appliances manufacturers send SMS really scary，Tomorrow is some what time we in a few floor open a selected location of the meeting，Please you each big manufacturer's a hand、Deputies must arrive at nine o 'clock a few floor，Are not allowed to leave，If not to people consequences，period。

　　张文强：这事没什么可谈的。

ZhangWenJiang：These things have nothing to talk about。

　　刘博：实际上还有一种拒绝谈判的做法，可能是跟企业的业务模式有关，举个例子，比如现在我们很多做产品的企业，然后做产业企业，实际上他们客户经常有两大类。一类就是大客户、一类是大众客户。所以我们在专业上有时候会叫做volume business实际上是对面对大众的业务，实际上在这种所谓的volume business里面的原则其中有一条就是价格不可谈。

LiuBo：In fact there is a practice of refusal to negotiate，May be with enterprise business model about，For example，Such as now we do a lot of products to the enterprises，Then do industry enterprises，They are, in fact, customers often have two kinds big。A kind of is big customer、One kind is mass customers。So we are professional sometimes called volume business is actually to face the public business，In fact in the so-called volume business principle of inside one of which is to not talk about prices。

　　张文强：这个价格是不能谈判的。

ZhangWenJiang：The price is not the negotiation。

　　刘博：比如你今天上街买了洗衣机，你可以跟卖东西的人去谈，但是对于生产方来说，他基本原则是不谈的，因为如果他每一个都去谈，他就累死了，他没有办法做，他没有办法做成volume。

LiuBo：For instance you today the streets to buy the washing machine，You can to sell things to talk about，But for production for party，He basic principle is not talk about，Because if he each to talk about，He was dead tired，He didn't do，He had no way to make it volume。

　　张文强：所以在商业模式制约上或者是要求上。

ZhangWenJiang：So in the business model is restricted or requirements。

　　李力刚：商业模式去谈。

LiLiGang：Business model to talk about。

　　刘博：没错。

LiuBo：That's right。

　　张文强：所以我觉得拒绝谈判听刘老师来跟你一分析，它里面还分成不同的层次和不同的内容。

ZhangWenJiang：So I think refused to negotiate listen to teacher liu to tell you a analysis，It is divided into different levels and different content。

　　李力刚：我想谈判就有三种情况，第一种情况就是我强，比方刚才刘博老师讲我是收购商，你是消费者，我就可以不谈，因为很我强；第二种是我弱他强；第三种情况是平等。所以我们在谈判里如果说我太强了，绝对不跟你谈判，这是句号。如果我是弱势的时候不能触碰你的底线，因为你太强了，我也不敢，这就不谈判。

LiLiGang：I want to negotiations have three kinds of cases，The first kind of circumstance is my strong，For example, just LiuBo teacher speak I am acquisition quotient，You are consumers，I can not talk about，Because it is my strong；The second is my weak he is strong；The third condition is equal。So we in the negotiations if I too strong，Absolutely not to negotiate with you，This is a。If I were the weak of time can't touch your bottom line，Because you are too strong，I can't，This will not negotiate。

　　第三种情况，如果平等的时候，因为有一个小游戏，如果有一个苹果，两个人分，怎样才能公平？很多人都会说榨成汁，这是不公平的，因为你的多，我的少；但是如果我们的是平等的时候，如果我是强势的时候，你就会说这是我的；但是如果平等的时候怎么办呢？就是切一下，我切你挑。

The third case，If equal time，Because there is a small game，If there is an apple，Two points，How to fair？A lot of people will say that squeeze into juice，This is not fair，Because of your many，My little；But if we are equal time，If I were a strong time，You would say this is my；But if equal time how to do？Is cut them，I cut you pick。

　　张文强：这算相对比较平等的。

ZhangWenJiang：That's relatively equal。

　　李力刚：但这是基于我们很平等的情况下，所以我觉得无论现象和表象怎么发展，其实还是逃离不了我强、我弱还是平等的情况。

LiLiGang：But this is based on we are equal circumstances，So I think no matter how phenomena and representation，In fact or not flee from me strong、I am weak or equal conditions。

　　刘博：而且现在实际谈判的过程你会发现很有意思，其实整个谈判的过程都是谈判双方努力把自己变成更强势的过程。

LiuBo：And now the actual process of negotiation you will find it very interesting，In fact the process of negotiation are the negotiations both sides made an effort to get himself into the more strong process。

　　张文强：都是这样。

ZhangWenJiang：Is such。

　　刘博：咱们举一个很简单的例子，有的时候一些商业上的东西，我跟李老师谈，然后我发现他比我强，他公司比我大，他2万人，我才200人，我谈不过他，但是忽然间我拉着张老师来，张老师是我们政府，他来支持我，一下子我就变成强势了，所以他当初不跟我谈，变成对不起，我还不跟你谈了，你自己看着办。

LiuBo：Let's give a very simple example，Sometimes some commercial things，I talk with Mr Li，Then I found him stronger than me，His company than I am，He 20000 people，I'm only 200 people，Talk to me but he，But suddenly I took a teacher to，Teacher zhang is our government，He came to support me，Suddenly I will become the strong，So he didn't talk to me，Become sorry，I don't talk，You see to that yourself。