“天才”与“魔鬼”何以集于一身？近日，京华时报记者在江苏铜山区看守所对话高阳。

"genius"and"The devil"Why set at a suit?recently,Jinghua times reporter in jiangsu tongshan area house of detention dialogue golds.

　　人物

characters

　　高阳

golds

　　网名“GG”，20岁河北小伙，计算机程序迷。他每天使用电脑20个小时以上，没有朋友没有女友、甚至没时间吃饭和花钱。

net"GG",20 years old hebei guy,Computer program fan.Every day he use computers more than 20 hours,Without a friend no girlfriend/Didn't even have time to eat and spend money.

　　本报记者王秋实摄

Our reporter WangQiuShi perturbation

　　我的程序跳出来的页面仍然是支付宝的页面，非常真实，一套流程下来比较完美，用户发现不了，直到交易完之后才能发现钱被刷走。

My program jump out to page is still pay treasure page,Very real,A set of process down is perfect,Users find it,Until after the transaction can be found that money was brush away.

　　如果出去的话，我想做一个还债的人。有那么多人因为这个受到了伤害，我想尽量做一个对社会有用的人，在能用到我的地方去还。

If out words,I want to be a person of debts.There are so many people for this hurt,I'd like to try to do a useful person in society,In use to my place also.

　　揭秘

revelation

　　“我能做到不黑别人钱”

"I can do it not black people money"

　　记者：这个木马程序是你想出来的？

reporter:This Trojan program is you want to out?

　　高阳：在这些程序里面，点子是最重要的，并不是有专业知识就行。有时我想出一个思路，自己不会写，就找技术更好的人来写。

golds:In these procedures inside,Ideas are the most important,And not just a professional knowledge.Sometimes I come up with an idea,Himself can't write,Seek technology better person to write.

　　记者：怎么想到做“浮云”这个木马程序？

reporter:How to think of to do"Floating clouds"The trojans?

　　高阳：我在别的群里看到有人说存在“黑吃黑”的现象，就是我写一个病毒木马租给你，你用来骗别人的钱，但是等钱到了你账户以后，我通过技术手段，在后台把你账户里的钱拿走，你也没办法。我觉得要是我来做这个程序，我能做到不黑别人的钱，于是就有了这个点子。

golds:I am in the other group saw someone say there"Black eat black"phenomenon,Is what I write a virus Trojan to you,You used to fool other people's money,But when the money to your account later,I through the technology,In the background you account money,You also can't.I think if I were to do this program,I can do it not black other people's money,And there was this idea.

　　记者：你木马的程序与他们有什么不同？

reporter:You Trojan program and what they have different?

　　高阳：原理差不多，但我的程序跳出来的页面仍然是支付宝的页面，非常真实，一套流程下来比较完美，用户发现不了，直到交易完之后才能发现钱被刷走。而且我也不会“黑”包马人（租木马程序的人）的钱，后来大家都来租我的用。

golds:Principle about,But my program jump out to page is still pay treasure page,Very real,A set of process down is perfect,Users find it,Until after the transaction can be found that money was brush away.And I won't"black"Pack horse people(Rent Trojan program)money,Then everyone to rent my use.

　　“我是规则的制造者”

"I am rules of the maker"

　　记者：你在这个QQ群里是个什么角色？

reporter:You're in the QQ group is a what role?

　　高阳：我在这个行业(如果算是行业的话)里边，是规则的制造者。我专门写过一个很多条规则的文档公布在群里，包括不准黑吃黑、不准不给拉单人提成等，还有不允许两个人在群里吵架、和外面的人相互诋毁等。

golds:I in this industry(If a word of industry)inside,Is the rules of the maker.I specialize in wrote a many rule documents published in group,Including no black eat black/No not to pull a single commission, etc,And don't allow two people in the group of the quarrel/And the outside man a mutual scandals, etc.

　　记者：他们服从你的管理吗？

reporter:They obey your management?

　　高阳：群里的人必须服我管，如果有人违反规则，我就停掉他的程序。因为是我建的群，我有绝对的权威，不服就踢了他，群里的人都称呼我“GG”，都服从、尊敬我。我不黑他们的钱，他们内心里面也会觉得我好，如果用别人的程序，10笔有4笔会被黑走，我就从来没做过这样的事。

golds:Group must suit I tube,If someone break the rule,I'll stop off his program.For it is I built group,I have absolute authority,And kicked him not,In the group of people all call me"GG",Are subordinate to/Respect my.I don't black their money,They will feel inside I good,If you use someone else's program,10 there are four sections of the pen is black walk,I'll never do such a thing.

　　挣了20万一分没花

Earn 20 one thousand points didn't spend

　　记者：这个木马程序给你带来多少收益？

reporter:The trojans bring you many benefits?

　　高阳：每个月10万左右。包马人一个月给我结一次账，程序也一个月会提醒一次到期，续费之后才能继续用。

golds:About 100000 every month.Pack horse people a month give me "a account,Program is also a month to remind a maturity,After the renewal can continue to use.

　　记者：两个月赚了20万怎么花？

reporter:Two month 200000 how to spend?

　　高阳：这些钱我一分都没花出去，我没想过要花它，也没什么可花的，每天都不出门。而且如果家里人问这个钱哪来的，我没法交代。我给家里人买过的东西都是用以前做网站的钱买的。

golds:The money I didn't spend a points out,I didn't want to spend it,There is nothing he can spend,Don't go out every day.And if the family asked the money which come of,I can't account.I to his family bought things are used to do the site money.

　　记者：你知道这些是违法收入吗？

reporter:Do you know these are illegal income?

　　高阳：我没想过会出这么大的事。我不知道包马人骗了多少钱，他们不会跟我说，说也不会说实话，拉单人也不会跟我交流。

golds:I didn't think it would make so great things.I don't know bag horse cheated how much money,They won't say with me,Said will not tell the truth,Pull a single also not be with me for communication.

　　经历

experience

　　“编程序有种成就感”

"Programming has a sense of accomplishment"

　　记者：你是什么学历？学的是计算机吗？

reporter:What is your degree?Learning is a computer?

　　高阳：大专和中专都学的是数控车床。我上中专时就很喜欢计算机，之后一直在自学计算机编程知识。一般就是从网上学，看看电子书，去一些编程的网站，和人聊聊、探讨一下，这些人有的是本科毕业、有的是爱好者，在论坛里交流技术。

golds:College or technical secondary school are learning is CNC lathe.I really like the computer when technical secondary school,After has been teaching myself computer programming knowledge.It is commonly from online learning,Look at the ebook,To some programming web site,And people talk about/discuss,These people have a plenty of undergraduate course graduation/Have a plenty of fans,In the BBS in communication technology.

　　记者：你觉得自己的专业水平如何？

reporter:You feel professional level?

　　高阳：我肯定不如专业学计算机的水平高，编程序并不是学得好就行。很多人懂这个，但没有思路。有时我遇到一个难题想不出来，一整天都在想，睡觉也在想，梦里突然想出来，赶紧跳起来敲在键盘上，键盘都敲坏了。

golds:I'm sure as professional learn the computer level is high,Programming is not learned is good.A lot of people understand this,But no ideas.Sometimes I meet a problem can't come up with it,All day in want to,Sleep in want to,The dream suddenly want to come out,Hurriedly jumped up and knock on the keyboard,Knock keyboard is broken.

　　记者：编程的魅力在哪？

reporter:Programming charm?

　　高阳：首先是我自己比较有兴趣，而且当你想出、做出一个东西时，比较有成就感。在论坛里时，我想出一个难题，很多人表现得很佩服我。

golds:The first is I'm more interested in,And when you come up with/Make a things,Comparison with a sense of accomplishment.In the BBS in,I came up with a problem,A lot of people did very admire me.

　　网上跟现实比好多了

A network with reality is better than a lot better

　　记者：大专毕业后工作过吗？

reporter:After graduation from college to work?

　　高阳：2008年大专毕业后我在唐山一个工厂做电焊工，我当时的工资2000元左右，但是除了吃饭以外，一天干10个多小时的活，感觉付出和收入太不成正比，很辛苦。

golds:In 2008 after I graduated from college in tangshan a factory do welders,I was salary 2000 yuan or so,But in addition to eat outside,One day dry 10 hours of live,Feel pay and income is not in proportion,Very hard.

　　记者：之后做过与电脑有关的工作吗？比如软件公司？

reporter:After doing and computer related work?Such as software company?

　　高阳：没想过去软件公司找工作，他们一般都要有学历、有专业、有工作经验的。就干脆不想这个东西了。

golds:Don't think about the past software company looking for a job,They generally have record of formal schooling/A professional/Have working experience.Simply don't want to this thing.

　　记者：有女朋友吗？和朋友同学联系多吗？

reporter:Have a girlfriend??Friends and classmates contact?

　　高阳：没有女友，上学时也没有。我每天上网时间都在20个小时左右，就是和网上这些群友交流。

golds:No girlfriend,School also have no.I surf the Internet every day time in 20 hours or so,Is the group of friends and net communication.

　　记者：你不觉得生活在网上不真实吗？

reporter:Don't you think life on the Internet is not true?

　　高阳：这样的生活也没什么不好，外面的生活太现实了，都从上班、接触社会时得来的印象。我在工厂时虽然没人欺负，但是也没人那么尊重我。网上跟现实比好多了，没那么多烦心的事。

golds:Such life is nothing,The outside life too realistic,From work/Contact society come impression.When I was in the factory although not bullied,But no one so respect me.A network with reality is better than a lot better,Not so much upset things.

　　记者：那你自学的东西怎么转变成谋生手段？

reporter:Then you self-study of thing how into a way of making a living?

　　高阳：我做过一些企业网站，有些中介在论坛群里发布任务，论坛里的人都可以去接任务。我接过很多个任务，接一个一般几千块钱，可能需要一个月的时间去建网站，看任务的要求时间。

golds:I did some enterprise website,Some intermediary in the BBS group released the task,BBS in can to meet the task.I took a lot of a task,After a general thousands of dollars,May need a month to building a web site,See the task time.

　　记者：这个付出和回报成正比吗？

reporter:This is proportional to the giving and receiving?

　　高阳：有的时候，我花了一个月给他做完，他找到新的人，不要了，我的就白做了，这个时候肯定很生气，但是也没有什么办法。

golds:sometimes,It took me a month to give him finish,He found new people,Don't,I will do the white,This time must be very angry,But there's nothing we can do.

　　反省

reflection

　　我不该给他们写程序

I shouldn't write to them program

　　记者：现在怎么看待这件事？

reporter:Now how look upon it?

　　高阳：我肯定是有责任，我不给他们程序，他们没法骗钱，进来这里面后我一直在想，觉得我是一个很坏的人。

golds:I'm sure there is a responsibility,I don't give them program,They can't cheat money,Come in here after I've been thinking,Think I am a very bad people.

　　记者：你用什么标准衡量好人坏人？如果包马人说谎话博取你的同情呢？

reporter:What criteria do you use to measure good guys and bad guys?If a packet of centaurs liars seeks your sympathy??

　　高阳：说假话的人还是能看出来，在网上这么多年了，通过长时间的聊天，我能判断出来。不过我现在很后悔，不该给他们写程序，应该给他们一条正当的生路，应该给他们一条不违法的道路来走，他们用我的程序骗了钱，我肯定也有责任。

golds:Liars can still see out,On the Internet so many years,Through the long time chat,I can figure it out.But I now regret,Shouldn't give them to write program,Should give them a proper way,Should give them a not illegal way to go,They use my program cheated out of money,I'm sure have a responsibility.

　　记者：出去之后有什么打算？

reporter:After go out have any plan?

　　高阳：如果出去的话，我想做一个还债的人。有那么多人因为这个受到了伤害，我想尽量做一个对社会有用的人，在能用到我的地方去还。那些包马人肯定也有偿还的义务，很多包马人钱已经花掉了，肯定不会像我这样去偿还，他们就是挣得快花得也快。我现在的想法像警察一样，做一个建立秩序的人。

golds:If out words,I want to be a person of debts.There are so many people for this hurt,I'd like to try to do a useful person in society,In use to my place also.Those pack horse people must also has an obligation to pay,A lot of packet horse people money has been spent,Won't be like me so to repay,They just earn quick flower as quickly.Now I like the idea of police,Do a establish the order of the people.

　　记者：看守所里没有电脑的生活习惯吗？

reporter:There was no detention house computer habits?

　　高阳：这方面轻松多了，以前每天只睡三四个小时，现在就当休息了，把以前欠的觉都补回来。

golds:This much more relaxed,Every day before only slept for three or four hours,Now when the rest,The former owe sleep all repair back.