“如果改革是出于公心，不谋私利，哪怕真的失败了，大不了就是（被）摘去乌纱帽，还不至于坐牢、（被）杀头。如果你不怕丢官，还怕什么？”

"If reform is out of public interests above everything else,unselfish,Even if really failed,Deal is(was)Pick the black gauze cap to,Also not in prison/(was)decapitated.If you are not afraid of suspect,Still afraid of what?"

　　罗崇敏的办公室里，层层叠叠的书籍挤满四壁。退休后，他有了更多灯下读卷、独处思考的时光。

LuoChongMin office,Folds of the walls with books.After retirement,He has more light to read roll/To be alone thinking time.

　　即便是一次漫谈式的专访，他也要穿好正装。与《南方》杂志记者聊起改革的议题，罗崇敏说自己“压力很大”，又“备感光荣”。

Even if is a gossipy interview,He also want to wear a suit.and[south]Magazine reporter talked about the issue of reform,LuoChongMin said he"Under a lot of pressure",and"Feel glorious".

　　“没有思想，谈不上解放思想；没有观念，凭什么更新观念？”

"There is no thought,Not to emancipate the mind;No idea,With what renew the idea?"

　　《南方》：您怎么定义改革的价值？

[south]:How do you define the value of reform?

　　罗崇敏：我始终坚信唯有制度可以兴国。执政者的天然职能就是制度设计和安排，而改革的目标指向就是建立与时俱进的制度和体制。在国际竞争如此激烈的今天，未来中国最大的潜力一定是制度的潜力，最大的红利一定是改革的红利。

LuoChongMin:I always believe that only the system can.The rulers of the natural function is the system design and arrangement,The goal is to establish the system of keeping pace with The Times and system.In the international competition so fierce today,The future of China's largest potential must be the potential of the system,The biggest bonus must be reform bonus.

　　《南方》：如何评价当下的改革环境？

[south]:How to evaluate the current reform environment?

　　罗崇敏：应该说从中央到我们（云南）省，都有很好的改革环境，社会也很包容改革、支持改革。但有了好的环境，是不是必然就有大的行动？有些官员口号声喊得很响，但意愿不强，办法不多。有时候听上去（改革的）脚步声很大，反过来想想，有多少是在原地踏步，有多少是向后转往回走？要知道，这样也能发出很大动静！

LuoChongMin:Should say, from the central to our(yunnan)province,Have good reform environment,Society is inclusive reform/Support reform.But there is a good environment,It is necessary to have a big action?Some officials KouHaoSheng shout very sound,But will not strong,Way not.Sometimes it sounds(reform)Footsteps big,In turn, think about,How much is the mark time,How much is the about-face turn back?Want to know,It also can make a lot of action!

　　《南方》：究竟是哪里出了问题，态度还是能力？

[south]:What is wrong,Attitude or ability?

　　罗崇敏：都有。现在很多官员失去了“闯”和“试”的勇气，对所谓“执行力”倒是情有独钟。一门心思地听上面怎么讲，看上面怎么做，久而久之，就失去了独立思考的能力、因地制宜的策略。改革不是两个字的口号，关键要看脑子里有没有东西。没有思想，谈不上解放思想；没有观念，凭什么更新观念？

LuoChongMin:have.Now many officials lost"rush"and"try"courage,On the"execution"Is have a special liking.One-track mind to hear how it speak,See above do,As time passes,Lose the ability of independent thinking/The strategy of adjust measures to local conditions.Reform is not two word slogan,The key to see whether there is a brain things.There is no thought,Not to emancipate the mind;No idea,With what renew the idea?

　　“所有改革的目的只有一个：发展。”

"All the aim of reform is only one:development."

　　《南方》：改革领域众多，难易有别，一般从何处入手？

[south]:Reform field many,Difficulty has,Generally, where to start from?

　　罗崇敏：改革是系统工程，必须要有系统思维，全盘地改，整体地改。不但要推进经济体制改革，还要推进政治体制、文化体制和社会管理体制改革。如果硬要分出三六九等，投机取巧，知难而退，那些单刀直入、单向推进的改革肯定会使社会发展失衡。

LuoChongMin:Reform is a system engineering,Must want to have a system thinking,In gross change,Integrally change.Not only to promote the reform of economic system,To promote political system/Cultural system and the system of social management reform.If stubbornly ceding the 369, etc,carpetbag,Shrink back from difficulties,Those who travels to/Unidirectional propulsion reform will make social development imbalances.

　　《南方》：您似乎对“渐进式改革”并不感冒？

[south]:You seem to"Gradual reform"Don't catch a cold?

　　罗崇敏：整体性改革，是适用于大多数地方主政者的方法论，不代表对渐进式改革的否定。国家层面的改革，自然应选择渐进性模式，虽然成本高、效益低，但对维护社会和谐稳定有积极作用。微观层面，应选择整体性模式。在一个区域、一个单位、一个企业，应设计包括人、财、物、体制、机制构建在内的整体改革，创造宏观的制度环境。

LuoChongMin:Comprehensive reform,Is suitable for most of the place of the methodology,Does not mean to gradual reform of negative.The reform of the national level,Natural should choose progressive mode,Although the high cost of/Benefit low,But to maintain social harmony and stability have positive role.micro,Should choose the mode of integrity.In an area/A unit/An enterprise,Should design including people/wealth/things/system/Mechanism structure, the overall reform,Create a macro system environment.

　　《南方》：地方的“整体性改革”，是否也受制于国家的“渐进式改革”？

[south]:place"Comprehensive reform",Whether is also constrained by the state"Gradual reform"?

　　罗崇敏：没错。州（市）级官员的改革条件有限，只能在力所能及的范围内推进。如当（红河州委）书记的时候，我肯定不敢推进教育“减负”。如果我这里改了，其他地方不动，还搞应试教育，在一考定终身的国家政策面前，这样做只能是害了当地的学生和家长。

LuoChongMin:yes.state(city)The reform of the level officials are limited,Only in the scope of what lies in advance.if(Red river ZhouWei)Secretary of,I'm sure I can't advance education"Alleviate the burden on".If I changed here,Other places do not move,Also make examination education,In a national policy for life as before,Doing so can only be hurt local students and their parents.

　　《南方》：改革的一般流程是什么？

[south]:Reform the general flow of is what?

　　罗崇敏：在中国搞地方改革，必须有一套严谨、严密的流程。首先，班子要统一思想，最终形成强有力的组织保障；其次，划定试点范围，大胆尝试，及时全面铺开；最后，多渠道掌握反馈信息，第一时间修正运行中出现的问题。

LuoChongMin:In China to work on local reform,Must have a rigorous/Strict process.First of all,Team to unify the thought,Finally formed a strong organizational guarantee;secondly,Defined the scope,Bold attempt,Timely comprehensively launches;finally,Multi-channel master feedback information,The first time correction in the operation of the problem.

　　《南方》：如何统一班子的思想？

[south]:How to unified team thinking?

　　罗崇敏：耐心争取。如果他不理解你的手段，就多谈目的；如果他不接受你的目的，就多谈愿景。把改革的目的、手段和愿景一一罗列，总有一环能打动他人。当然，如果真的针锋相对，那就只能用效果说话。比如我在红河推的户籍制度改革，很多人担心会带来社会混乱，但从实际情况看，从农村迁到城市的有1.5万人，从城市到农村也就300人，一切都在可控状态。

LuoChongMin:Patience for.If he doesn't understand your means,Much talk about purpose;If he doesn't accept your purpose,Much talk about vision.The purpose of the reform/Means and vision list one by one,There is always a ring to impress others.Of course,If really tit for tat,That can only speak with effect.Such as I am in honghe push the household registration system reform,Many people worry that will bring social chaos,But from the realities,From the countryside moved to the city of 15000 people,From the city to the countryside is 300 people,Everything in the controlled condition.

　　《南方》：改革的自信来自哪里？

[south]:Reform of confidence come from?

　　罗崇敏：相信群众。这绝不是一句简单的口号。相信群众，就是要研究群众作为人的需要、心理的需要、利益的需要。如果一名官员不把自己当群众，又不愿走近群众，最后只能按照凭空想象某种结果，然后怕这怕那。

LuoChongMin:Believe in the masses.This is not a simple slogan.Believe in the masses,Is to research the masses as the need of the people/Psychological need/Benefit needs.If a officials don't take yourself when the crowd,They don't want to come near the masses,According to the last can only be resembled a certain result,Then the fear of this fear that.

　　《南方》：谁也不能百分之百地预见改革结果，您就不怕吗？

[south]:No one can foresee the one hundred percent reform,You are not afraid of??

　　罗崇敏：改革是一种催生新事物的政治设计，肯定要淘汰旧事物。新旧碰撞，特别是涉及到利益调整，风险不仅有，从某个方面讲还很大。但作为党委政府，必须理直气壮地承担起改革风险。就我个人来说，如果改革是出于公心，不谋私利，哪怕真的失败了，大不了就是（被）摘去乌纱帽，还不至于坐牢、（被）杀头。如果你不怕丢官，还怕什么？

LuoChongMin:Reform is a kind of to nurture new things political design,The old things must be eliminated.New collision,When it comes to interest adjustment,Risk not only have,In a way that speak is very big still.But as the party committees and governments,Must confidently undertake risk reform.Personally,If reform is out of public interests above everything else,unselfish,Even if really failed,Deal is(was)Pick the black gauze cap to,Also not in prison/(was)decapitated.If you are not afraid of suspect,Still afraid of what?

　　《南方》：拿什么来评判改革的大方向是否正确？

[south]:Take what to evaluation reform way is correct?

　　罗崇敏：《易经》上讲，“革，不震，吉。”意思是只要不产生社会大震动的改革都应该是成功的。一次改革，不管力度多大、内容如何，都有一个不能突破的底线，那就是避免引发社会震荡。在这样的基础上，追求目标、手段和效果的统一，也就是正确处理改革、发展、稳定的关系。这些年，我从来没有为了改革而改革，也没有为了出风头而改革，我推动的所有改革的目的只有一个，发展。

LuoChongMin:[I ching]speaking,"leather,Don't shock,Jim."Meaning is as long as do not produce social shock reform should be successful.A reform,No matter how much strength/How content,There is a not break through the bottom line,That is to avoid trigger social shock.On such a basis,goal/Means and the unity of the effect,Also it is the right treatment reform/development/Stable relations.these,I have never to reform and reform,Also does not have to cut a figure and reform,I push all the aim of reform is only one,development.

　　“谁都不能袖手旁观，看戏不唱戏。”

"Who can stand by,Don't act in an opera theatre."

　　《南方》：您并不喜欢“明星官员”这个称谓，但您的个人魅力，确实因你的个性对改革起到了巨大的推动作用。

[south]:You don't like"Star officials"The appellation,But your personal charm,Indeed for your character to the reform played a huge role.

　　罗崇敏：在当下的政治环境中，如果一任领导有权威、有能力、有智慧，对全方位推动改革确实有好处。但光靠个人魅力，（搞改革）还是勉为其难。改革的设计者可以是精英，但推动者只能是人民大众，每个人都是改革的一分子，都肩负着责任。谁都不能袖手旁观，“看戏不唱戏”。

LuoChongMin:In the present political environment,If the next leader has the authority/Have the ability to/wise,To promote the comprehensive reform really good.But light on personal charm,(reform)Or difficult to.Reform the designer can be elite,But the agent can only be the masses of the people,Everyone is a part of the reform,Are shouldering the responsibility.Who can stand by,"Don't act in an opera theatre".

　　《南方》：如何将“个人探索”和“普遍实践”有机结合起来？

[south]:How to"Personal exploration"and"Common practice"Organic combine?

　　罗崇敏：回过头看小岗村村民的历史贡献，不在于他们在30多年前的那个夜晚做了什么，而是他们的做法被上升为国家意志，被写进法律。改革者的先进思想，如果没有改革后建立的新制度来维护，是没多大意义的。

LuoChongMin:Looking back at XiaoGangCun contribution to the history of the villagers,Is not in their 30 years ago that night do,But their practice was increased to the will of the state,Is written into law.The reformers advanced thought,If there is no set up after the reform of the new system to maintain,Is not much meaning.

　　《南方》：客观来看，在您结束一地任期后，曾经的改革成果并没有被新任领导完整保留。您怎么看待这种迂回变化？

[south]:Objective to see,In the end you a term,Once the reform achievement is not the new leadership intact.How do you think of this kind of alternate change?

　　罗崇敏：我只做我能做的事情，不做别人认为该做的事情，也不奢望别人做我做过的事情。现在很多地方主政官员喜欢写“断代史”，喜欢通过否定别人来证明自己，这样的局面我控制不了，也不想控制。在任时，把自己想做的、能做的做好就行了，不必回头看。

LuoChongMin:I do what I can do,Don't do what others say the things to do,Don't expect others to do what I did.Now a lot of the local officials like to write"Dynastic history",Like through the negative people to prove himself,Such a situation I have no control over,Also don't want to control.When in,What you want to do/Can do it well,Don't look back.

　　《南方》：很多人都觉得，您在仕途上也该多走一步……

[south]:A lot of people think,You in the official career and the more step……

　　罗崇敏：我常说，做官的大小，是组织的事；抱负的大小，是个人的事；能做的事情的大小，是个人和组织共同的事。总的来看，我官做得不大，事做的还不小。

LuoChongMin:I always said,The size of the view,Is the organization of;Aspiration of the size of the,Is a man;Can do the size of the things,Is a common thing and organization.overall,I do not have official,Things do not also.

　　《南方》：没有遗憾吗？

[south]:No regrets??

　　罗崇敏：不遗憾，至少我做过。

LuoChongMin:Don't regret,At least I did.