编者按： Editor's note:

　　

10月9日晚，央视《看见》栏目记者、主持人柴静受邀在清华大学做了一场题为“采访是一场抵达”的演讲。演讲的部分内容在微博上公开后，引起反响。同时，由于之前媒体报道不全面，很多人期待较完整的内容。现摘要编发部分演讲内容，呈现其演讲原貌。 October 9,,CCTV[saw]Column reporter/The host ChaiJing invited in tsinghua university made a titled"The interview was a arrived"speech.Part of speech in micro bo after on the public,reaction.At the same time,Before due to media reports is not comprehensive,Many people look forward to a complete content.Now has the part of speech,Present the original speech.

　　

没有夯实的报道，评论只是沙中筑塔 No tamp reports,Review of the sand just build tower

　　我们对于一件事情知道得越少，就越容易形成判断，而且是越容易形成强烈的单纯判断。

We for one thing the less you know,The easier it is to form judgment,And it is more easy to form strong simple judgment.

　　人们头脑中偏见的根源，往往是来自于无知，我们对于一件事情知道得越少，就越容易形成判断，而且是越容易形成强烈的单纯判断。

People in mind the root of prejudice,Is often comes from ignorance,We for one thing the less you know,The easier it is to form judgment,And it is more easy to form strong simple judgment.

　　就像我要把一瓶水移动，把它拿到胸前，这是一个很简单的动作，但是我要把一瓶水非常精确地移动一毫米，这就需要花很多的时间去计算，你肌肉的酸痛度也会增加。

Like I'm going to put a bottle of water,Take it to his chest,This is a very simple action,But I want to take a bottle of water very accurately move one millimeter,This need to spend a lot of time to calculate,You muscle ache degree will also increase.

　　精确是一件需要耗费比较复杂的智力活动的一件事情。报道就要求精确，要求对事实和因果梳理，没有这个基础，评论往往就是议论、想象，而不是事实。

Accurate is a need to take more complex mental activity of one thing.Report requires accurate,Requirements for facts and causal comb,Without the base,Review is often talk about/imagine,And is not the fact.

　　我自己在二十三四岁的时候，成为国家电视台的主持人，做一个十六分钟的新闻深度报道。我觉得这样的状况在世界新闻史上也是很少见的，一个年轻人被放到做深度评论的主持人位子上，这是我们刚刚起步的电视新闻决定的一种特殊要求，以后也不会更多地出现。实际上媒体有它的规律，就像一个存在的植物，它必须要按照它的规律生长一样，要想变得粗壮、强韧，必须到土地里头去接受风吹日晒，再一片一片叶子长出来，如果没有非常夯实的报道作为基础，那么评论只能是沙中筑塔。所以我转行做了记者，到现在十年了。

I myself in 2034 years old,Become a national television host,Do a 16 minutes of news depth reports.I think this situation in the world on the history is also very rare,A young man was in do depth review host seat,This is we just start to TV news is a kind of special requirements,Later also won't appear more.In fact the media has its rules,Like a existing plants,It must be in accordance with the law of its growth,If you want to become stout/fortitude,Must go to land is to accept being exposed to the elements,Then a piece of a leaf long out,If there is no very compacted reports as the foundation,Then review can only be built the sand tower.So I turned to the reporter,To now for ten years.

　　

采访是呈现，不是评判 Interview is to present,Judge not

　　采访不是用来评判，采访是用来了解；采访不是用来改造世界，采访只是来认识世界。

Interview is not used to judge,The interview was used to understand;Interview is not used to transform the world,Interview just came to know the world.

　　我觉得对我来说，采访最大的障碍就是一句话，“我认为我是对的”。这句话看起来不太起眼，但是它造成的障碍会远远大于我们的想象，顾准原来说过一句话，他说什么叫专制，专制就是认为自己绝对不会错的想法，如果一个采访者带着定见，很难了解世界的复杂。

I think for me,Interview the biggest obstacle is a word,"I think I was right".This sentence doesn't look too humble,But it creates disorder could be far greater than we can imagine,Gu originally said a word,He said what call despotism,Autocracy is think you never wrong idea,If a the interviewer with change,It is difficult to understand the complex world.

　　前段时间我采访魏德圣，他拍的电影《赛德克·巴莱》，就是当年发生在台湾的“雾社事件”，原始部落的人跟日本人之间的一场战争。

Some time ago I interview WeiDeSheng,He shot the film["Dirk and lai],Is that occurred in Taiwan"WuShe events",Primitive tribe to between Japanese a war.

　　魏德圣说，在台湾历史当中关于这个事件只有两句话，某年某月某日多少人反抗日本军队；再看日本的教科书也是两句话，是某年某月某日台湾某个原始部落的一场暴动。反抗和暴动，这是对于一件事情的两种解释。都只有两句话，都很简单，但魏德圣说记者式的社会思维要回答的是：“为什么他们在这个事件中做出了那样的选择？”

WeiDeSheng said,In Taiwan's history about the events of only two words,Once upon a time many people against the Japanese army;Look at Japan's textbook is two words,Is the hour and day and month and year Taiwan a primitive tribe a riot.Resistance and riots,It is one thing for the two kinds of explanation.There are only two words,Are simple,But WeiDeSheng said reporters type social thinking to answer is:"Why are they in this incident made that choice?"

　　魏德圣说，他进入这个头领内心的时候，受过很多的冲击，一开头他会热血激沸，觉得很牛，三百多人就把三千多日本人都干掉了。但了解越深，他开始发现自己精神上出现了危险的摇晃，比如说他去接触当年认识这个部落首领莫那鲁道的人，那个人跟他讲，他根本不是一个英雄，他是一个流氓，每一个经过他部落的人他都会打，他控制欲很强。然后魏德圣又会去想，这个人为什么会在战争之前让自己的孩子跟家人上吊？有时候他害怕得简直写不下去了，因为在不断地推翻自己的看法，他突破了概念，想要抵达一个真实的人。

WeiDeSheng said,He entered the chief heart,With a lot of impact,In the beginning he will blood excitation boiling,Feel very cow,More than three hundred people took three thousand days himself killed.But the deeper understanding,He began to find yourself spirit appeared on the sway of the danger,For example he went to contact the know this tribal chief mo that lu way,The man to speak to him,He's not a hero,He is a rascal,Every one after his tribal people he can play,He control manipulative.Then WeiDeSheng and to think,What this man will be prior to the war that their children with your family hanged?Sometimes he will be too afraid to can't write down,Because in constantly to overthrow their views,He broke the concept,Want to arrive in a real person.

　　一个人进入另一个人心灵的过程是一个可怕的过程，可怕在哪？可怕就在于思想本身，思想本身的危险就在于思想本身是不安的。它拒绝接受已经形成的定见，他需要从自己的思考和感受出发去认识人，这本身就意味着动荡、不安、危险，还有进步。在这个过程当中你会发现你没有依靠，你原来思想上可能有一个拐杖，但是你不得不把它抛掉，这个拐杖就是人类已经形成的习俗、观念。就像一个被按在水里的人，你必须把头埋在水里面，学着呛水才能够学会思考。

A man in another personal mind process is a terrible process,Terrible where?Terrible is the thought itself,The risk of thought itself is thought itself is uneasy.It refused to accept has been formed certainly see,He needs from their own thinking and feeling set out to meet people,It means that unrest/uneasy/dangerous,And progress.In the process you will find that you have not rely on,You originally thought may have a crutch,But you have to throw it away,The crutch is human custom has been formed/concept.Like a man on the water,You have to bury my head in the water inside,Learn to choke water can learn to think.

　　所以我要讲的下一句话就是，采访不是用来评判，采访是用来了解，采访不是用来改造世界，采访只是来认识世界。我很年轻就做了记者，年轻人最热诚，但是也最容易犯的一个错误，就是我们真的想通过报道把这个世界变得更好。

So I want to say a word is under,Interview is not used to judge,The interview was used to understand,Interview is not used to transform the world,Interview just came to know the world.I am very young did the reporter,Young people are the most warmly,But also the most easy to make a mistake,Is what we really want to through the report to the world a better place.

　　我最初那两年在公开场合讲话或者领奖的时候总是会说，我希望我做这个节目，曾经让这个世界变得更好。这些话很漂亮吧，听上去加点音乐就可以上片尾字幕了吧？但是这样煽情的话并不是职业记者的使命，这个是我慢慢才意识到的。

I first the two years to speak in public or accept the time will always said,I hope I do this program,Once make the world a better place.These words are very beautiful!,Sounds add some music can credits on it?But this enticing words and not professional reporter mission,This is I slowly realize.

　　假如你有这样强烈改造社会的目的，你就会容易形成你头脑当中的偏见，你认为世界有一个完美的范式，它就应该向那个方面发展，假如它不是那样，你就不接受，你就抵触，你就想改变他，这样就有两个后果，一个是你根本改变不了，对方发现你想影响他的时候他就不接受你了，会背道而驰；第二个结果是当你改变不了的时候，就可能因为挫折感或者绝望，放弃了你之前的全部努力。

If you have such a strong the goal of reforming society,You will be easy to form your mind of prejudice,Do you think that the world is a perfect paradigm,It should to the aspect development,If it is not like that,You will not accept the,You will contravene,You'll want to change him,So there are two consequences,One is you never change,The other party found that you want to affect his time he will not accept you,Will run in the opposite direction;The second result is when you can't change the time,May be because of frustration or despair,Before you give up all the efforts.

　　

媒体要提供光亮，照向黑暗未知之处 The media to provide light,As to the dark unknown place

　　有同学问，那我们的媒体道德是什么，我现在认为记者的道德就两个字，很简单，就是“明白”：让人明白，让人明白这个世界本来面目是怎么样的，这个就是我们的职业道德。你把这点做好就可以了，即使我不能够清空自己的一个情绪判断，也要有一个戒备，佛经中说“念起即觉，觉即不随”，这个念头要起来你要能觉察，觉察之后你会不会跟随它，要有这个意识。

Some students asked,That our media morality is what,I now think that reporter's moral just two words,Very simple,is"understand":Let people understand,Let people understand the world true colors are,This is our professional ethic.You put it well can the,Even if I don't able to clean up their own an emotion judgment,Also want to have a alert,Sutra says"Read since that sleep,Sleep that is not as",This idea will rise up you need to be able to perceive,After perceive you will follow it,To have this consciousness.

　　媒体的职责不是提供“热”而是提供“光”，不需要煽动社会的热情，媒体是在提供光亮，照向黑暗未知之处。

Media duty is not to provide"heat"But provide"light",Do not need to incite the enthusiasm of the society,Media is in providing bright,As to the dark unknown place.

　　面对饱受社会争议的对象，他已经带着全部的盔甲来面对采访了，你要感受他，设想如果你是他，这个时候是一个什么样的状态，是一个什么样的感受，会做什么样的准备。而且，他会因为曾经遭遇过敌意和攻击，收缩得更为紧张，他时刻做好要么反击要么逃避。

Face by social dispute object,He has brought all the armor to face interview,You have to feel his,Imagine if you are he,This time is a what kind of state,Is a what kind of feeling,Do what kind of ready.and,He will because had met hostility and attack,Shrinkage more nervous,He is always well either counterattack or evade.

　　人在受到威胁的时候只有这样的模式。

People were subjected to the threat only such mode.

　　那么采访要达成的是什么？采访达成的是信息，你必须要问舆论期待知道的问题，不可以回避。但要提供一个让大家明白这一切造成的因果和背景，那记者就不能够跟他构成对抗的关系。我现在对自己有一个原则，就是对事苛刻，对人宽容。

Then interview to reach?An interview is information,You must ask opinion looking forward to know,No one can avoid.But to provide a let you understand all this cause causal and background,The reporter is not able to constitute the relationship between his fight.I now have a principle,Is the hard things,To forgive.

　　大家可以观察一下我对李永波的这段采访，很好玩。他说到当年林丹和李宗伟两个人在上海有过一场比赛，在本土作战，而且是林丹领先，上海的观众就喊了一嗓子“李宗伟加油”，东道主的客气嘛，林丹一听连失四球，比赛就输了。

You can look at me to LiYongBo of this period of interview,fun.He said the lindane and LiZongWei two people in Shanghai have a game,In the local operations,And it is lindane lead,Shanghai audience shouted a throat"LiZongWei refueling",Host: welcome,Lin Dan a listen to even lost four ball,The game is lost.

　　李永波大发雷霆，在赛后新闻发布会说，这个上海观众素质太低了，怎么会这么没有爱国心，以后我们的比赛都不在上海办了。我当时采访羽毛球运动员消极比赛，觉得此事有关他的胜负心，或者对于体育比赛精神和内涵的一个理解，所以我就问他，他一开始是很强硬，他说你怎么可以“给外国人加油”，观众怎样怎样，结果导致林丹输了什么的，我们这样来往大概有三个回合，他一直很强硬。

LiYongBo bent out of shape,In the press conference after the game said,The Shanghai audience quality is too low,How can so no patriotism,Later we game are in Shanghai did.I was interview badminton athletes negative game,Think it about his win the heart,Or for sports spirit and connotation understanding,So I asked him,The beginning of his is very tough,He said how could you"To foreigners come on",Audience how to how to,The results lead to lindane lost what,So we go about three rounds,He has worked very hard.

　　后来我把问题稍微变化了一下，意思是说站在一个教练的角度，人们可以理解你会有这样一种心情，但是在中国羽毛球队已经发展到这个阶段，人们可能会对你有一个更高的期许，就是希望能够倡导体育文明。他忽然就改变过来说，对，我也觉得，喊“加油”也挺好的，这样对队员的心理素质也是一个锻炼。

Then I put the question a little change once,Mean standing in a coach's Angle,People can understand you will have such a mood,But in the Chinese athletes have been developed to the stage,People may have a higher expectations,Is to hope to be able to advocate sports civilization.He suddenly changed speaking,to,I also feel,shout"refueling"Also quite good,So to players psychological quality is also an exercise.

　　这个改变看起来很突兀，是一个急转弯，但其实不是，他在面对大量反对声音的时候，已经在内心去消化和感觉这些声音了，只是他不愿意承认，如果你用敌意的方式去质问，他就会出于防卫把自己的立场踩得像水泥地那样硬实。

This change looks very abrupt,Is a sharp turn,But is not,He in the face of a large number of against the sound,Has in the heart to digest and feel these sound,But he does not like to admit,If you use the hostility of the way to query,He will be out of defence put their position on that as cement for breaking dormancy.

　　但如果你能理解他何以如此，再把他站立的那个地方松一松，空气进去了，水进去了，那个土壤变得湿润了，变得松滑了，他两个脚站的时候就不会粘固其中，他就会左右摇摆。我刚才说过了，思想的本质是不安，不安就是这种动荡，一个人一旦产生动荡的时候，新的思想就已经产生了，萌芽已经出现了，人们需要的只是给这个萌芽一个剥离掉泥土，让它露出来的机会。

But if you can understand why he has so,Again he stand on the land FangSong a pine,Air in,Water in,The soil becomes moist,Become loose slippery,His two feet of the time will not cementation among them,He will swing around.I just said,Thought that is the essence of unrest,Unease is the unrest,Once a person produce the unrest,New ideas have produced,Bud had appeared,People only need to give the sprout a stripping away soil,Let it come to light opportunity.

　　年轻时期采访，有时喜欢把对方逼到墙角，攻击他，反正你手里也没有武器了，反正你会倒在地上，那样更好看。但是人成年了，我觉得还需要某一种宽厚，这个宽厚不是乡愿，是一种认识，就是你认识到人的头脑和心灵是流动的，你不要动不动就拿一个大坝把他的心拦起来了，就不让他进，也不让他出了，其实人是可以流淌的。

A young age interview,Sometimes like to put each other forced into a corner,Against him,Anyway, your hand no weapons,Anyway, you will fall to the ground,That look better.But the adult,I think need a kind of generous,The generous not hypocrite,Is a kind of knowledge,Is you can realize that the human mind and heart is flowing,You don't be so ready to take a dam put his heart stopped up,Will not let him in,Don't let him out,In fact people are can flow.

　　好感和反感是你在观察人的时候最有害的一种心态，你要在采访前就对一个人形成了好感或者反感，你就没有办法诚实和客观地观察他了。

Favor and dislike is you observe the person was the most harmful a state of mind,You want to interview before in a personal formed a favor or dislike,You have no way to honesty and objectively observe him.

　　□柴静(央视《看见》栏目记者、主持人)

- ChaiJing(CCTV[saw]Column reporter/The host)