中国责任投资论坛日前邀请了英国气候变化集团中国区总裁唐伟珉，中创碳投科技有限公司总经理唐人虎和兴业银行(601166,股吧)可持续金融部碳金融处负责人陈亚芹等业内专家，共同探讨中国资本市场低碳创新。

China's responsibility investment BBS has invited the British climate change group China TangWeiMin President,Where carbon cast technology co., LTD. The general manager dynasty tiger and societe generale(601166,guba)Sustainable banking financial place ChenYaQin carbon in the expert inside course of study, etc,Discuss China's capital market low carbon innovation.

　　“跟多数企业相关的是，随着碳市场的发展会给企业带来约束，也就是不考虑这块就要增加成本。”

"With most of the enterprise is related,With the development of the carbon market will give enterprise to bring the constraint,Also is not thinking about this will increase the cost."

　　“对于国内企业而言，如何做好资产管理是应对市场冲击的关键。在碳市场中资产管理的重要体现就是交易能力，因此培养企业自己的交易能力应该是挑战之一。”

"For domestic companies,How to do well the asset management is the key to cope with the market impact.In the carbon market assets management is the important embodiment of trade ability,So to cultivate enterprise's own ability to trade should be one of the challenges."

　　2012年，京都议定书第一阶段即将到期，第二期框架不确定。而此前的德班会议谈判结果也不尽如人意，加之全球经济持续低迷，中国碳市场发展前景如何？其面临的挑战在哪儿？2011年底，国家发改委下发《关于开展碳排放权交易试点工作的通知》，确定了七省市开展碳排放权的交易试点工作。中国企业面临的风险与机遇又是什么？

In 2012,,The first phase of the Kyoto protocol is about to expire,The second phase of the frame are not sure.The previous durban meeting negotiation result is not satisfactory,Together with the global economy sustained downturn,China's carbon market development prospects?The challenge in where?By the end of 2011,Issued by the national development and reform commission[About to carry out carbon emissions trading pilot work of the notice],Determine the seven provinces and municipalities to carry out carbon emissions trading pilot work.Chinese enterprises face risks and opportunities and???????

　　带着这些问题，中国责任投资论坛日前邀请了英国气候变化集团中国区总裁唐伟珉，中创碳投科技有限公司总经理唐人虎和兴业银行可持续金融部碳金融处负责人陈亚芹等业内专家，共同探讨中国资本市场低碳创新。

With these questions,China's responsibility investment BBS has invited the British climate change group China TangWeiMin President,Where carbon cast technology co., LTD. The general manager dynasty tiger and societe generale sustainable banking financial place ChenYaQin carbon in the expert inside course of study, etc,Discuss China's capital market low carbon innovation.

　　将建真正意义上的碳市场 Will be built in the true sense of the carbon market

　　主持人：我们注意到一个现象，就是国外碳市场比较低迷，而国内尽管交易量不大，看起来却很热闹。我们比较关心国内碳交易的整体状况如何？听说明年要推出试点，那么我们面临什么挑战？

The host:We noticed a phenomenon,Foreign carbon market is low,And domestic although little volume,Look is very lively.We are more concerned with the whole situation of domestic carbon trading?Heard that next year to launch pilot,Then we face any challenge?

　　唐人虎：我认为中国从2005年到现在应该说没有什么经验。我们原来一直只做卖方。现在试点的碳市场才是真正的碳市场，即以配额的方式，在不同参与方中进行一系列的交易。目前，国内试点几个区域都有自己的特色，比如北京、上海，本身也不涉及能源，而是在既定的能源总量框架下，让自己的产业调整。以一个更好的方式，成本更低的方式进行下去。像湖北、重庆也是一样，他们的立足点在于怎么能够在未来发展中改变以能源消耗为基础的方式，使当地GDP更绿色、更健康。再比如说深圳，也在试点里面，它的关键在于能够进行金融创新。总体而言，这些地方试点不是每个地方大而全，可能每个有一两个亮点。最后国家把它整合起来，才能推广到全国去，应该是一个相对平衡和妥协的机制。

Dynasty tiger:I think China from 2005 to the present should say do not have what experience.We were always only do the seller.Now pilot carbon market is the real carbon market,That is the way to quotas,In different party in a series of trade.At present,Several domestic pilot areas have their own characteristics,For example Beijing/Shanghai,Itself also does not involve the use of energy,But given the energy under the framework of the total amount,Let his own industrial adjustment.In a better way,Cheaper way down.Like hubei/Chongqing is the same,Their foothold is how can the future development of the change to energy consumption as the foundation of the way,Make the local GDP more green/More healthy.Again for instance shenzhen,Also in the pilot inside,It is the key to financial innovation.In general,These places pilot not every local large and comprehensive,May each have a two bright spots.The last country put it together,To promote the country to go,Should be a relative balance and compromise mechanism.

　　唐伟珉：作为一个投资方，我们希望国内碳市场的政府部门、专家等设计方能够提供给碳投资方一个稳定的碳价来支持技术引进。举个例子，在国内，我们曾经试图推一个大型的水电优化软件，这个软件比较贵。软件首次购买就要两百万欧元，而每年维护、升级还需要三四十万美元。但是，通过技术优化能够让几百兆、上千兆的大型水电站增发2%，这个效率提高是很大的。然而，这么高成本的技术引进，就需要稳定的碳价来支持。

TangWeiMin:As a investors,We hope that the domestic carbon market government departments/Experts, and so the designer can provide carbon investors a stable carbon price to support the technology import.For example,In the domestic,We tried to push a large hydropower optimization software,This software is more expensive.Software for the first time to buy two million euros,And every year maintenance/The upgrade also need to 3.4 million dollars.but,Through the technology optimization can make hundreds of megabytes/Thousands of times of large hydropower station issued shares of 2%,This is a great efficiency.however,So the high cost of technology import,Will need stability of carbon price to support.

　　陈亚芹：作为国内商业银行，我们一直在摸索参与和支持碳市场建设和发展的方式，但在这个过程中，我们也看到，目前的试点方案留给投资机构或金融机构参与的空间并不大。我认为无论在什么市场，金融机构转移支付、价格发现和促进市场流动性的功能是不可替代的。因此在碳市场建设初期的方案设计中，建议并行研究金融和投资机构的参与方式。特别是对于这样一个全新的市场，如何引进投资者，如何引进金融机构，怎样给各参与方定位，怎么样让他们参与其中，这些都是应该考虑的问题，并且金融机构应该获得一些发声的机会。

ChenYaQin:As a domestic commercial bank,We have been in the dark to participate in and support the carbon market construction and development way,But in this process,We also see,The pilot scheme for investment institutions or financial institutions involved in space is not big.I think no matter what the market,Financial institutions transfer payment/The price discovery and promote the function of the market liquidity is irreplaceable.Therefore in the carbon market construction initial scheme design,Suggest parallel study financial and investment institutions to participate in the way.Especially for such a new market,How to introduce investors,How to introduce financial institutions,How to each party positioning,How to let them participate,These are the problems should be considered,And financial institutions should get some chance of voice.

国内企业应转变卖方思维 Domestic enterprises should change the seller thinking

　　主持人：中国企业参与碳市场又有一些什么风险与机遇呢？各位所在机构在低碳当中有一些什么样的创新？

The host:Chinese enterprises to participate in the carbon market and what are some risks and opportunities?Your institution in low carbon there is some kind of innovation?

　　唐人虎：我觉得对于国内企业来说应转变卖方思维。中国这几年参与碳市场，充当的是卖方角色，企业更关注我能挣多少钱。但事实上，跟多数企业相关的是，随着碳市场的发展会给企业带来约束，也就是不考虑这块就要增加成本。碳在中国就相当于能源，与能源相关的企业都会面临约束，比如说汽车、制造业都需要用能源，中国这些行业产品的碳含量可能都比其他国家高。可以预见，未来二三十年，碳这块对于中国来说就是短处。因为国内能源就是煤，对应产品相对来说就是高碳的，像欧盟、美国这些地区和国家就会通过提高碳排放标准来制造技术壁垒。中国很多国际化的公司，比如说中国石油(601857,股吧)，就因为所进行的海外投资已经被动纳入到碳交易市场中。最后，因为碳在国内是新兴的市场，就跟以前的网络、股票一样，很多都是空白，市场正处在规则制定过程中。这个市场的发展从小到大，都会出现相应的高回报机会。

Dynasty tiger:I feel that for domestic enterprises should change their thinking for the seller.China over the past few years to participate in the carbon market,Act as a seller's role,Enterprises pay more attention to how much money can I.But in fact,With most of the enterprise is related,With the development of the carbon market will give enterprise to bring the constraint,Also is not thinking about this will increase the cost.Carbon in China is equivalent to energy,And energy related enterprise will face constraints,For example car/Manufacturing industries need to use energy,China these industry product carbon content may be higher than any other country.Can foresee,The next two hundred and thirty years,Carbon this for China is shortcoming.Because domestic energy is coal,Corresponding products is relatively high carbon,As the European Union/The United States these regions and countries will by increasing carbon emissions standards to make technical barriers.Many of China's international company,Such as China's oil(601857,guba),Because of the overseas investment has passive into carbon trading market.finally,Because carbon in China is an emerging market,Like previous network/The stock,Many are blank,The market is in the process of establishing rules.The development of this market since the childhood,Will appear the corresponding high return opportunity.

　　唐伟珉：作为投资人，我们做的碳金融在不同程度上有一些创新的地方。一种是能够给项目带来国外先进的技术和管理经验，举个例子就是垃圾填埋气的收集和利用这一块。我们在深圳投资了一个垃圾填埋气收集利用项目。根据国内开发方的项目设计，预备收集沼气发电装机规模是8兆，但项目从开始气量就达不到设计规模。我们通过自己的渠道帮它引进了先进的填埋器、渗滤液和一些垃圾管理的经验和知识，提高了沼气的收集量。到目前为止，发电量已经超过预期。其次，就是可以把一些将来的收益，通过质押、保理提前变现，此前我们也做过。最后一种，我们也进行一些减排项目的股权投资。

TangWeiMin:As an investor,We do carbon financial in different extent, there are some innovation place.One kind is to be able to project bring foreign advanced technology and management experience,For example is rubbish landfill gas collection and utilization of this one.We in the shenzhen investment a collection of landfill gas utilization project.According to the domestic KaiFaFang project design,Prepare collecting methane generating scale is 8 million,But the project from the beginning volume constitute no design scale.We through their own channels help it introduced advanced landfill apparatus/Leachate and some waste management experience and knowledge,Improve the biogas collection quantity.So far,Power generation has more than expected.secondly,Is can put some future earnings,Through the pledge/Factoring cash in advance,After we have done.Finally a,We also make some reduction project equity investment.

　　陈亚芹：作为商业银行，我们已经针对清洁发展机制（CDM）项目设计了一些金融产品，比如CDM项目融资、CDM交易撮合和碳资产质押业务等，这些产品既发挥和整合了银行的项目和平台资源，帮助实现了交易双方的双赢，也通过创新的融资方式，解决了企业资金压力，加强了企业参与碳交易的积极性。在国内碳市场建设中，我们也在积极参与，并且已经与上海、广东和天津等试点地区建立了合作关系，比如与上海的合作，包括交易清算、交易系统的开发等。

ChenYaQin:As commercial Banks,We have to clean development mechanism(CDM)Project design some financial products,Such as CDM project financing/CDM dealmaker and carbon assets pledged, etc,These products both play and integrate the bank projects and resources,Help realize the trade both parties of a win-win situation,Also through the innovation mode of financing,To solve the enterprise fund pressure,To strengthen the enterprises to participate in the carbon trading enthusiasm.In the domestic carbon market construction,We are also actively participate in,And have and Shanghai/Guangdong and tianjin pilot areas established a cooperative relationship,For example and Shanghai cooperation,Including transaction liquidation/The development of the trading system.

　　挑战方面，对于国内企业而言，如何做好资产管理是应对市场冲击的关键。在碳市场中资产管理的重要体现就是交易能力，因此培养企业自己的交易能力应该是挑战之一。商机方面，我们相信要真正起到碳金融市场杠杆作用，对于碳金融衍生产品的开发，以及碳交易引起的产业转型和技术的升级，都是商业银行未来的商机所在。

challenges,For domestic companies,How to do well the asset management is the key to cope with the market impact.In the carbon market assets management is the important embodiment of trade ability,So to cultivate enterprise's own ability to trade should be one of the challenges.Business opportunities in,We believe that to really play a carbon financial market leverage,For carbon financial derivatives product development,And carbon trading caused by the industry restructuring and upgrading of technology,Are all commercial Banks in the future business opportunities.

　中国碳市场发展的关键在国内 The key to the development of China's carbon markets in China

　　主持人：目前全球经济走势有很大不确定性，京都议定书要到期，德班会议也没有什么持续性的产出。这些会不会对未来碳市场产生什么样的影响？从你们的角度来说，预期是乐观还是谨慎？

The host:Now the global economic situation has great uncertainty,The Kyoto protocol to maturity,Durban meeting no continuous output.In the future they will carbon market produce what kind of impact?From your point of view,Expected to be optimistic or cautious?

　　唐伟珉：从欧洲的碳市场来讲，目前受到欧洲经济影响，欧盟也是在考虑制定各种措施保护投资者。他们采取的措施包括两方面，比如削减供给，像氢氟碳化合物（HFC）或其他工业气体所产生的减排量第二年就不容许进入碳市场，从而大幅削减了核证减排量（CER）的供应量。此外，从需求量试图制造一些需求，比如一直考虑制定一个计划把本来要拍卖的指标，缩减量甚至回撤出去，期望这样能够刺激欧盟碳市场需求。而对于国内，欧盟也希望中国能采取更多措施来开展减排。另一方面，中国也并不是出于要像出口创汇一样向欧洲出售减排量，而更多是出于自己能源安全需求，所以我想今后我们碳市场更多的希望还是在国内。

TangWeiMin:From European carbon market terms,At present by the European economic impact,The European Union is in consider making various measures to protect investors.They take measures include two aspects,Such as cut supply,Like hydrogen fluorocarbon(HFC)Or other industrial gas produced by the reduction in the second year is not allow into the carbon market,Thus slashed certified reduction(cer)supply.In addition,Demand from trying to make some demand,Such as always consider making a plan was going to auction index,Reduced quantity even retracement out,Expect this can stimulate the eu carbon market demand.For the domestic,The eu also hope that China can take more measures to carry out emissions.On the other hand,China is also and not from like to earn foreign exchange through exports to Europe as sell reduction,And more of his own energy security needs,So I think in the future we carbon market more hope and at home.

　　唐人虎：在欧洲经济形势已经如此低迷的情况下，欧盟还在力推航空碳税，说明碳在未来一定是其国家战略形势的一个方面。此外，美国环境保护局（EPA）对于燃煤电厂的监测和美国2015~2016年要逐步关闭系列燃煤电厂计划的这两个行动，说明美国整个能源结构将要发生大的变化。我相信，一旦人均碳排量降下来，美国和欧洲一定会联合起来制造技术壁垒。

Dynasty tiger:In the European economic situation has so sluggish,The European Union is still in promoting aviation carbon tax,Explain carbon in the future must be its national strategic situation one aspect.In addition,The United States environmental protection agency(EPA)For coal-fired power station monitoring and the United States 2015 ~ 2016 years will gradually close series coal fired power plant plan the two action,The United States the whole energy structure will occur big changes.I believe that,Once per capita carbon emissions down,The United States and Europe will unite manufacturing technology barriers.

　　从企业层面来看，现在很多国际大公司也都将碳纳入核心战略，像通用、壳牌、BP。它们认为碳必须要有一定价格，碳市场到一定高度才能促进相关的一系列技术创新。我们知道，一般认为，大公司才是推动西方经济的推手。

From the enterprise level,Now many international companies also will carbon into the core strategy,As general/shell/BP.They think that carbon must have a certain price,Carbon market to a certain height can promote a series of related technology innovation.We know that,General think,Big companies is to promote the western economic hand slap.

　　陈亚芹：目前国内的碳市场建设，从气候变化立法，到监测认证，到温室气体排放标准的研究，包括温室气体清单等相关配套工作全都开展得很快，而且每步都做得很实在。银行作为商业机构，尽管目前在纯粹的碳市场中能够可持续盈利的模式还没有被完全发现出来，但我们认为面对的是一个低碳领域，我们希望通过产品的开发不断积累经验能够对未来碳市场的形成和为它的活跃奠定基础。同时，我们也希望金融机构能够在低碳市场这样一个细分市场的研究，为未来碳金融发展起到很好的促进作用。 （江聃）

ChenYaQin:At present domestic carbon market construction,From climate change legislation,To monitoring the authentication,To greenhouse gas emissions standard research,Including greenhouse gas and list of related work all carry out very quickly,And each step did very really.The bank as a commercial organizations,Although at present in pure carbon market can sustainable profit pattern has not been fully developed,But we think that faced with a low carbon field,We hope that through the development of the product can accumulate experience for future carbon market formation and for its active lay the foundation.At the same time,We also hope that financial institutions can be in low carbon market such a subdivision market research,For future carbon financial development play a good role in promoting. (Jiang Dan)