卡托研究所负责学术事务的副所长、中国问题专家詹姆斯·多恩主要研究领域包括国际贸易、货币的未来和中国经济改革。詹姆斯·多恩关注中国经济改革已经20多年，对中国推进市场化改革持极为支持的态度，并强调中美作为战略伙伴关系的重要意义。早在1989年出版合著《中国经济改革：问题和前景》，之后陆续出版或者合著《中国新千年：市场改革和社会发展》（1998年）、《中国的未来：建设性的伙伴还是新兴的威胁》（2000年）等。日前，他接受了本报记者的专访，就中国经济的未来发表了自己的看法。

Cato institute is responsible for the academic affairs deputy director/China expert James dorn main research areas include international trade/Currency and the future of China's economic reforms.James dorn paid close attention to China's economic reform has more than 20 years,China's marketization reform to promote the extremely support attitude,And emphasis on strategic partnership between China and the United States as the important meaning.As early as in 1989, published[China's economic reform:The problems and prospects of],In succession, after publication or[China's new one thousand:Market reform and social development](In 1998,)/[The future of China:Constructive partner or emerging threat](In 2000,), etc.a,He accepted our reporter's interview,Is China's economic future voiced their opinions.

　　经济观察报：中国正在进行市场经济改革，鼓励民营资本进入垄断行业中，你怎么评价中国目前的改革进程？美国部分行业曾经也掌握在垄断企业手中，美国是如何打破这一垄断的？

Economic observer:China is market economy reform,Encourage private capital into the monopoly industries,What do you think of China's current reform process?Some parts of the United States industry ever also controls in the monopoly enterprise hands,The United States is how to break the monopoly?

　　詹姆斯·多恩：垄断的力量通常都是依赖国家的支持，无论是在中国还是在美国，这一点都是成立的。政府的角色应该是在法律的统治下，保护公民的人身安全和财产安全，不授予跟政治关联的人一些特权。在美国，曾经也存在着垄断的现象，例如钢铁行业，但是现在这种垄断的情况已经一去不复返了，新产品被允许和垄断产品进行竞争，外国企业的进入也被允许了，消费者因此获利，新的财富被创造。阻止竞争对于消费者和经济的进步都是不好的。

James dorn:Monopoly power is usually rely on the support of the country,Whether in China or in the United States,This point is established.The role of the government should be in under the rule of law,Protect citizens' personal safety and property safety,Do not award with political associated person some privilege.In the United States,Ever also exists the phenomenon of monopoly,For example, iron and steel industry,But now the monopoly situation are gone,The new product is allowed to compete and monopoly products,Foreign enterprises into was also allowed,Consumers so profit,New wealth was created.Stop competition for consumers and economic progress is bad.

　　在打破美国经济中存在的垄断势力时，美国政府所扮演的角色，外界存在着很大的误解。那些所谓的“强盗”资本家，例如说安德鲁·卡内基和约翰·洛克菲勒实际上是民营企业家，他们增加了工业的产出同时在很长的一段时间里相对降低了价格，有利于消费者。新的企业的竞争能力实际上并不是被政府控制。私有财产权利的存在、对专利权的保护、对利润的追求最终导致更多的竞争，而不是更少的竞争。但是，那些失去市场份额的工业，比如铁路行业，他们会去国会要求得到保护，结果是交通运输行业被过度监管等等。所以，中国不应该去保护某些产业，而要鼓励民营企业，鼓励创新，通过保护企业获得利润的权利和允许效益低下的公司破产来保护正常的竞争。

In a break with the U.S. economy exist when monopoly power,The role of the United States government,Outside there are a lot of misunderstanding.Those so-called"The robber"capitalists,For example says Andrew Carnegie and John Rockefeller is actually the private entrepreneurs,They increased industrial output at the same time over a long period of time relative to reduce the price,Benefit consumers.New the enterprise the competitive ability in fact and not by the government control.The existence of private property right/The patent protection/To profits ultimately lead to more competition,Not less competitive.but,Those who lose market share of the industry,Such as railway industry,They will go to congress for protected,The result is transportation industry by excessive supervision, etc.so,China should not to protect certain industries,And to encourage private enterprises,Encourage innovation,Through the protection of enterprise profit rights and allow low benefit company bankruptcy to protect the normal competition.

　　经济观察报：在中国不断引导国企进行改革的过程中，也有一种声音，国有大企业的高利润证明了这种经营模式是符合中国经济状况的，你怎么看待这种说法？民营资本进入垄断行业的过程中，他们需要面临怎样的问题？

Economic observer:In China continuously guide state-owned enterprises in the process of reform,There is also a voice,The state-owned big enterprise lucrative proves that this kind of business model is accord with China's economic condition,What do you think of this statement?Private capital into the process of monopoly industries,They need to face what kind of problem?

　　詹姆斯·多恩：很多公用事业、运输、邮寄、电信等，都可以通过私人市场来提供。即便是所谓的天然垄断也可以拿出来进行投标，企业家们可以通过投标来决定谁来提供这项服务的权利，签署长期合同，正如哈罗德·德姆塞茨（美国经济学家，因其“产权理论”知名）和其他人所说的那样。美国政府现在拥有部分通用汽车公司（GM）的股份，接管了房地美和房利美，但是纳税人在赔钱，这些救市措施正在引起一个道德风险的问题，那就是，如果企业希望获得政府的救援，企业将面临更大的风险。所以中国应该尽量减少国有企业，并允许更多的私人所有权。

James dorn:A lot of public utilities/transport/mail/Telecommunications and other,Can through the private market to provide.Even the so-called natural monopoly can also take out to tender,Entrepreneurs can through the tender to decide who to provide the service of rights,Signing long-term contracts,As Harold DE seitz's(American economist,Because of its"Property right theory"famous)And others say that.The United States government now have part of general motors(gm)shares,Took over Freddie MAC and fannie mae,But taxpayers in the loss,These save city measures are causing a moral hazard problem,That is,If enterprise wants to receive government aid,The enterprise will face greater risks.So China should try to reduce the state-owned enterprise,And allow more private ownership.

　　民营资本在被允许进入国有垄断行业后，他们在获得银行贷款方面存在一定的劣势，他们必须花费一部分资金用来对付腐败等。一个公平的竞争环境，应当提供一个完全法治的环境，这样就能够结束所谓的高福利企业，允许更多的竞争。永远存在“竞争太过激烈”，越多的竞争对消费者来说就意味着更划算的买卖。

Private capital is allowed to enter after state-owned monopoly industries,In their access to bank loans have some disadvantages,They must spend part of the capital used against corruption, etc.A fair competition environment,Should provide a complete environment of the rule of law,It was thus able to end the so-called gao fuli enterprise,Allow more competition.Exist forever"Competition is too fierce",The more competition for consumers means more cost-effective trading.

　　美国2008年到2009年金融危机的主要教训是，“大到不能倒”的模式是非常昂贵的。政府支持的次级抵押贷款市场和人为的低利率助长了错误的决定，导致了在房屋市场的过度消费。当泡沫破了，整个经济就陷入一个巨大的衰退。所以，私人资本应当被允许失败，即便它是一个大玩家。

The United States in 2008 to 2009 financial crisis is the main lesson,"To can't fall"Mode is very expensive.Government support of the subprime mortgage market and human low interest rates encourage the wrong decision,Led to excessive consumption in the housing market.When the bubble burst,The economy is in a great recession.so,Private capital should be allowed to fail,Even if it is a big player.

　　经济观察报：中国已经在温州设立了金融改革试验区，对于如何利用私人资本，你有何建议？都知道，跟世界上其他国家一样，中国也在经历一段困难的时期，温州的改革是否会对中国渡过困难期，实现经济转型有所帮助？

Economic observer:China has in wenzhou has set up financial reform pilot area,For how to use private capital,What do you suggest?All know,As with any other country in the world,China also after a difficult period,Wenzhou's reform of China through will lull in business,To realize the transformation of the economic help?

　　詹姆斯·多恩：对于中国来说，从国家主导的资本市场到一个私人的自由市场，是一个必然的事情。政府控制着资本市场，并且规定利率水平扭曲了价格信号，而且也有赖于这个价格信号来确定投资的决定，同时国家主导资本市场也会导致腐败和稀缺资本的分配不当。在国际市场上，一个合适的价格是非常重要的，尤其是利率。目前在中国存在金融管制，不利于获得一个可持续的平衡的增长。不仅是中国，美国联邦储备委员会也在进行金融管制，美联储将利率控制在一个极低的水平，事实上美国的利率水平现在是负的。

James dorn:For China,From the national leading capital market to a private free market,Is a cert.Government control of the capital market,Interest rates and provisions distorted the price signal,But also depends on the price signal to determine the investment decision,As the country's leading capital market can also lead to corruption and the allocation of scarce capital improper.In the international market,A suitable price is very important,Especially the interest rate.Be in China at present existing financial control,To obtain a sustainable balance growth.Is not only China,The federal reserve also in financial control,The fed will interest rate control in a very low level,In fact American interest rates are now negative.

　　通过国有银行向国有企业提供资金，从长远来看，势必会损害中国经济的发展。这种集中的金融模式导致了普遍的腐败和资金的浪费。如果国有银行和国有企业走向市场，将会使得资金得到更高效的利用。目前，并没有足够的力量支持这样的一个改革，但是类似温州金融改革试验区这样的试验是一个正确的方向。如果成功了，这一模式将会被复制，正如当年经济特区的发展过程一样。

Through the state-owned Banks to provide funds of state-owned enterprises,In the long run,Will damage the development of China's economy.The concentration of financial mode led to widespread corruption and waste of money.If the state-owned Banks and state-owned enterprises to go into the market,Will make money to get more efficient use.At present,There is not enough power to support such a reform,But similar wenzhou financial reform pilot area this test is a right direction.If successful,The model will be copied,As a special economic zone in the development process of the same.

　　温州的金融改革试验区，私人资本被允许投资于小型非国有企业，以便能够合法地获取利润，在这个过程中获得的一个利率反映了真正的市场力量。以前政府不认可这种行为的时候，这种行为产生的利率就是黑市利率。现在的利率相比于黑市利率要好很多。因为私人资本市场开始公开化，这股自由市场的新空气将创造财富，而且新的产业将自发地自下而上发展起来。国家垄断的企业想要获得潜在的发展，就必须通过竞争，竞争对于消费者来说，总是好事，因为它可以降低价格，并提高质量。

Wenzhou financial reform pilot area,Private capital is allowed to invest in small non-state-owned enterprise,In order to legally a profit,In this process have a rate reflects the real market forces.Before the government does not recognize this kind of behaviors,This kind of behavior produce interest rates is black market interest rates.Now the interest rate compared to the black market interest rates much better.Because private capital market began to come out into the open,The free market new air will create wealth,And a new industry will spontaneously bottom-up development up.National monopoly enterprise want to obtain potential development,We must through the competition,Competition for consumers,Always good,Because it can lower the price,And improve the quality.

　　最终，中国想要有一个完全的可兑换的货币市场和一个世界级的资本市场。为了做到这一点，中国需要在金融领域引入更多的自由，并允许信息的自由流通，以及外国投资者的进入。

finally,China wants to have a complete convertible currency market and a world-class capital market.To do this,China needs in the financial field introducing more freedom,And allow the free flow of information,And foreign investors into.