《中国经营报(博客,微博)》：最近两三年，关于农民资金合作社领域出现的问题一直层出不穷，在全国多地都有发生。你怎么看这种现象？

[China business newspaper(blog,Micro bo)]:The last two or three years,About the peasants' fund cooperatives in the domain of problems have been emerge in endlessly,All over the country have happened.What do you think of this phenomenon?

　　张晓山：目前在农村出现的大量金融乱象，说明我们原来设想的多元化的健康的农村金融体制并没有形成。我们原来讲，农村金融应该是政策性金融、商业性金融、合作性金融等都能够并存的这样一种能够相互扶持、多元化的金融体制。但是到目前为止，还没有形成这样一种体制。现在一些所谓的农村资金互助机构，并不是一种真正的农村合作金融组织。

ZhangXiaoShan:At present a large number of appears in the countryside financial mess,Imagine that we had the diversity of health of rural financial system and have not been formed.We were told,Rural finance should is the policy financial/Commercial financial/Cooperative finance, and to be able to coexist of such a can support each other/Diversified financial system.But so far,Has not formed such a system.Now some so-called rural capital mutual mechanism,Not a real rural cooperative financial organizations.

　　现在在农村，一方面有资金的供给，就是有一些人希望能够有一些回报，另一些地方又有资金的需求。这样的话，就出现了资金互助社；另外一方面，党的十七届三中全会决定，有条件的农民专业合作社也可以开展资金互助业务。一些地方的农民合作社就在内部开展资金互助业务，有一些专业合作社也有资金互助的业务。

Now in the country areas,On the one hand have the money supply,There is some people hope to be able to have some return,Some other place and have the need for the funds.so,In mutual cooperative;On the other hand,The party's seventeen decision adopted at the third plenary session,Conditional farmers' professional co-operatives can also carry out mutual fund business.Some local farmers cooperatives in the internal development of mutual fund business,There are some professional cooperatives have mutual fund business.

　　这些专业合作组织本来应该满足农民自身的资金需求，而不是以营利为目的。但是因为没有来自各方面的正规监管，往往成为变相的吸储，然后搞高利贷，实际上成为民间的“老鼠会”。

These specialized cooperative organization should satisfy the capital demand of the farmers themselves,Rather than carry on a business for profit.But because there is no regular supervision from all sides,Often becomes the XiChu in disguised form,Then make usury,In fact become a folk"Pyramid scheme".

　　我们目前还没有一种成型的制度设计、制度安排，也没有真正的来自各方面的监管。银监会也好，或者当地各方面的金融监管机构，都应该发挥作用，但是往往这方面做得不到位。所以就出现了江苏许多农民资金互助合作社这种情况。农民资金合作社泛滥之后，都是以营利为目的的，甚至出现了非法集资、诈骗。

We currently have no a molding system design/System arrangement,Don't actually supervision from all sides.The CBRC or,Or the local all aspects of financial regulators,Should play a role,But often this aspect do not a.So they appeared jiangsu many farmers capital mutual cooperatives this kind of situation.Peasants' fund cooperatives after the flood,Is for the purpose of profit,Appear even illegal financing/fraud.

　　《中国经营报》：在这种乱象面前，政府应该如何应对？

[China business newspaper]:In the front of the mess,The government should how to deal with?

　　张晓山：农村在发展中的资源要素供给和配备存在一定的不对称，这样才会有农民资金合作社这种组织形式的出现。如果没有一个正规的渠道、组织安排、金融安排，就会出现各种各样的问题。所以凡是出现这样的问题，就说明在资金的供给方还是存在着现行的体制并不能满足他的这种金融活动的需要。

ZhangXiaoShan:In rural areas in the development of the resources elements supply and equipped with has certain asymmetric,Such ability can have peasants' fund cooperatives this kind of organization form of appear.If not a formal channels/arrange/Financial arrangement,Will appear all kinds of questions.So those who appear such problems,It shows that the money supply of still have a current system and can't satisfy his this kind of financial activities.

　　我觉得现在迫切地需要金融监管部门注意到目前的苗头，注意现在这种动态性的趋势，及时出台相应的政策和有关的条例或者规则，及时把这一块规范好，进行有效监管。另外开展金融互助业务的，也必须由专业合作社的相应部门进行审核监管。现在政府都在讲的是扶持帮助，但是监管这个到底由谁来做，应该明确责任，而且能够真正的加以实施。

I think now urgently need financial supervision department noticed the symptom,Pay attention to the present dynamic trend,Timely corresponding policy and the relevant regulations or rules,This time a good standard,Carries on the effective supervision.In addition to carry out financial mutual business,Also must by professional cooperatives corresponding department audit supervision.Now the government is talking about is support to help,But supervision this exactly who has to do the,Should clear responsibility,And be able to really implement.

　　现在并不是说要把农民资金互助这些东西堵塞，堵塞之后，它的需求的满足还会通过地下渠道走，那样的话反而问题更大。关键是要界定好，不同的金融机构，比如说商业金融也好，政策金融也好，民间借贷也好，专业合作中的资金互助也好，各自应该定位什么情况，应该有什么样的规范，有什么样的游戏规则，谁来进行监管，谁能够保证它进行正常的运行。要各司其职，这样的话就能够保证金融有序运行。

Now is not to say that the peasants' fund mutual these things jam,Jam after,It's to meet demand will also go through underground channels,In that case it is a bigger problem.The key is to define good,Different financial institutions,For example the business financial or,Policy financial or,Folk loan or,Professional cooperation of mutual funds or,Each should positioning what circumstance,There should be a kind of specification,What kind of the rules of the game,Who to carry out supervision,Who can ensure that its normal operation.To do their own work,So can ensure that the financial and orderly operation.

　　《中国经营报》：大量涉及资金互助合作组织乱象的发生，是不是和它本身的定位，和中国现时的金融政策和经济环境有关？

[China business newspaper]:A lot of money involved in mutual cooperation organization the happening of the mess,And it is the orientation of itself,And China's current financial policy and economic environment related?

　　张晓山：资金互助合作社到底是什么样的一种性质，它到底应该在哪里注册，应该具备什么资质和人员，它的活动范围是什么，由谁来进行监管进行审计，这些恐怕都应该是我们这些金融监管部门应该来回答的问题、应该履行的职责。金融活动本身是一种经济活动中非常重要的一些活动，江苏的农民资金合作社在民政系统注册成为民办非企业性质，这本身就有些不伦不类的。

ZhangXiaoShan:Capital mutual cooperatives in the end is what a kind of nature,Where is it what should registration,What should have qualification and personnel,What is the scope of its activities,Who to audit supervision,I'm afraid all these should be us these financial supervision department should to answer the question/Should perform duties.Financial activities itself is a kind of economic activity is very important in some of the activities,Jiangsu farmer cooperative funds in civil administration system registered as people-run non-enterprise properties,This itself is something of a neither fish nor fowl.

　　之所以出现这样的乱象，本身还是存在这样的需求，但是这种需求得不到满足，比如说小微企业、中小企业从正规商业银行得不到贷款，这样的需求使得担保公司这样的机构应运而生，出现资金互助社等机构。但是另外一种观点认为，并不存在这种情况，在现有的农业银行(601288,股吧)、农村商业银行、农村信用社，包括小贷公司等，目前的正规渠道已经能够满足各方面的资金需求，所谓的小微企业缺钱是个伪命题。这个观点是不一样的，这涉及到现在农村的资金供给和需求是什么样的一种状况。

The reason that has such a mess,Itself or exist such a demand,But this needs are not being met,For example small micro enterprise/Small and medium-sized enterprises from normal commercial Banks can not get loans,Such a demand for such institutions guarantee company arises at the historic moment,Appear mutual cooperative institution, etc.But another view,Does not have this kind of situation,In the existing agricultural bank(601288,guba)/Rural commercial bank/Rural credit cooperatives,Including small loan companies, etc,The current normal channels have been able to meet the fund demand,The so-called small micro enterprise lack of money is a false proposition.This view is not the same,This involves now rural capital supply and demand is what kind of a kind of situation.

　　《中国经营报》：现在许多对农民资金合作社这些农村金融组织的管理大多都没有专门的部门，更缺乏对监管部门明确的职责要求。你如何看待这样一个现实？

[China business newspaper]:Now many funds for farmers cooperatives these rural financial organization management were not special department,More lack of supervision department clear responsibility requirements.How do you see such a reality?

　　张晓山：金融的问题是专业性非常强、影响面非常大的，必须有专业的人才、专业的部门来进行监管，而设在县委下边的农村工作部本身是作为一个政策扶持、政策指导的部门出现，进行宏观方面的工作，如果要具体做金融的监管工作，就有些不合适。

ZhangXiaoShan:The financial problem is professional very strong/Influence surface is very big,Must have the professional talents/Professional department to carry out supervision,And is located in the county party committee under the rural work is itself as a policy support/Policy guidance department appear,Macro aspect work,If you want to do specific financial supervision work,There are some improper.

　　为什么会出现金融危机？就是因为金融专业性非常强。另一方面，金融衍生物往往涉及的面比较广，出事后往往会最终影响到人们的生产生活。所以这一块必须有专业的监管。我觉得，银监会不管的话，那它对这个问题在某种程度上是失职的。

Why will appear the financial crisis?Is because financial professional very strong.On the other hand,Financial derivative often involves surface is wider,Accident often will ultimately affect the people's production and life.So this a must have professional supervision.I think,The CBRC regardless of words,To the problem that it is in some ways of dereliction of duty.